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  #41  
Old 06.01.2023, 18:35
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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It was a horrific accident. My 5 year old is so small that if the car was big enough, the driver might never know what they did. Particularly if the child was thrown to the side of the road. In this case, i would not expect passing cars to notice anything lying on the side of the road, or to register that it is a child in the split second they pass. Its better for our health to assume the best in people.

That said, i do rage at the carelessness of drivers through the city.
But that it took a passer-by to notice the poor lad lying there first? At rush hour at 8am on a busy road coming from all directions?

Again, I hope that soon someone is called to justice.
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  #42  
Old 06.01.2023, 22:52
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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It was a horrific accident. My 5 year old is so small that if the car was big enough, the driver might never know what they did. Particularly if the child was thrown to the side of the road. In this case, i would not expect passing cars to notice anything lying on the side of the road, or to register that it is a child in the split second they pass. Its better for our health to assume the best in people.

That said, i do rage at the carelessness of drivers through the city.
From what I understand, the police are bringing three cars to court. I doubt they would without certainty of a reason to do so.
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  #43  
Old 06.01.2023, 23:32
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

Someone mentioned earlier that you should not move someone that has been in an accident. I always thought this was true as well. And perhaps it is, but when I was in my 20s, I was in my apartment one day and heard a loud noise on the street outside, with a car screeching. I looked outside and saw a small boy (about 3 years old) lying in the street in front of the car. I grabbed my cordless phone, called 911, and ran out there. The boy was lying on his back, unconscious, and the 911 operator told me that he needed to be moved "as a unit" (stiffly) onto his side so that he didn't choke or suffocate on his own blood. I told the people who were gathered around him that the 911 operator said that, but then one of them mentioned that she was a nurse, so I let her and the others handle it and went back home after a little while, as I didn't want to "gawk" and felt there was nothing more I could do to help.

I found out later that the little boy died. I guess open cans of beer were found in the guy's car. I will never forget the sound of his mother (or grandmother?) screaming in horror when she had come out to see what had happened. That was one of those days that I will never forget.
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  #44  
Old 12.01.2023, 11:30
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

A very interesting article on 20 Minuten...a father fimed how his son just waited to cross the street...a lot of cars did not stop. Only when the boy had a flashlight a car stopped. As you can see in the article, the crossing is in a 50 Zone on a straight street and the boy had a vest. The question also is if the drivers did not see the boy because of the road sign on the left.

https://www.20min.ch/story/video-von...g-817243478972
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  #45  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:05
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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A very interesting article on 20 Minuten...a father fimed how his son just waited to cross the street...a lot of cars did not stop. Only when the boy had a flashlight a car stopped. As you can see in the article, the crossing is in a 50 Zone on a straight street and the boy had a vest. The question also is if the drivers did not see the boy because of the road sign on the left.

https://www.20min.ch/story/video-von...g-817243478972
I believe it has only been a relatively update to Swiss road rules (last 10 or 15 years) that a hand-signal is not required from the person wanting to cross on the zebra crossing. Some older drivers still don't get it, others are in their own world.
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  #46  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:12
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I believe it has only been a relatively update to Swiss road rules (last 10 or 15 years) that a hand-signal is not required from the person wanting to cross on the zebra crossing. Some older drivers still don't get it, others are in their own world.
I did my driving license in CH mid 90ies and we learned that you must stop every time a pedestrian is near a crossing, also if they are on the ther side. You must also wait until they are done crossing before speeding off again. What happened in that video is appalling!

Having said that early this morning I had a bunch of school girls run to the crosswalk and stop because their crossing light was red. I slowed down as despite having the green I was worried they may stumble on the street and the driver behind me promptly threw a fit
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  #47  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:16
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I did my driving license in CH mid 90ies and we learned that you must stop every time a pedestrian is near a crossing, also if they are on the ther side.
Apologies, the change occurred in 1994:
https://fussverkehr.ch/fileadmin/red...andzeichen.pdf

But that is 28 years ago, so at least half the drivers on the road should have got their licences under the new rules.
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  #48  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:19
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I slowed down as despite having the green I was worried they may stumble on the street and the driver behind me promptly threw a fit
You should do that having foreign plates....the amount of sheer hostility is mind-boggling.
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  #49  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:20
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I believe it has only been a relatively update to Swiss road rules (last 10 or 15 years) that a hand-signal is not required from the person wanting to cross on the zebra crossing. Some older drivers still don't get it, others are in their own world.
Some drivers look you in the eye and carry on driving. They don't give a damn.

On the linked video, who put that (temporary) road sign in such a stupid place?
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  #50  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:21
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I believe it has only been a relatively update to Swiss road rules (last 10 or 15 years) that a hand-signal is not required from the person wanting to cross on the zebra crossing. Some older drivers still don't get it, others are in their own world.
There's a bunch of reasons why pedestrians cannot use their hands. I've been carrying groceries bags and drivers let me cross anyway. When I drive I've seen parents with a stroller, delivery drivers with their hands occupied with a box, senior adults with walkers, teenagers in crutches, nannies from kinderkrippe with their hands occupied holding the children...anything happens haha

Did not know about this rule change, but the current rule feels natural. If someone is 1-2m from crossing, just stop.

But, I'm surprised by the video. I can remember 1 or 2 times that drivers have not stopped in my 10 years in CH. Drivers are respectful most of times. Could this be a roadwork zone that displaced the crossing? This is not normal.
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  #51  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:22
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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Having said that early this morning I had a bunch of school girls run to the crosswalk and stop because their crossing light was red. I slowed down as despite having the green I was worried they may stumble on the street and the driver behind me promptly threw a fit
I'm amazed at the number of people here who work in mission-critical jobs that mean a delay of five seconds on their journey in will ruin their whole day.
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  #52  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:26
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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There's a bunch of reasons why pedestrians cannot use their hands. I've been carrying groceries bags and drivers let me cross anyway. When I drive I've seen parents with a stroller, delivery drivers with their hands occupied with a box, senior adults with walkers, teenagers in crutches, nannies from kinderkrippe with their hands occupied holding the children...anything happens haha

Did not know about this rule change, but the current rule feels natural. If someone is 1-2m from crossing, just stop.
And then you get the cell-phone user, oblivious to everything else, pacing up and down near a zebra crossing? WTF is he doing? Is he crossing or not?

Or the two teen-agers stopped to have a chat at the crossing, neither looking to their right ...

Education is needed, but for all road users.
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  #53  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:32
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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And then you get the cell-phone user, oblivious to everything else, pacing up and down near a zebra crossing? WTF is he doing? Is he crossing or not?

Or the two teen-agers stopped to have a chat at the crossing, neither looking to their right ...

Education is needed, but for all road users.
Anyway, the one driving the 2 ton potential manslaughter machine is me. Just another case of "it's not my responsibility, but it's my problem"
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  #54  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:36
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

After moving to Ticino, I only now realise how good (most of) the drivers in Basel were. They'd see you anywhere NEAR the zebra crossing, and be ready to stop for you. I always felt a bit guilty if I were going straight ahead.

Bellinzona is a different story... you pretty much have to be halfway across before cars will consider slowing for you. It's scary sometimes.

I did a driving lesson in Basel with an instructor (I already have my licence but the opportunity arose), and although I thought I was pretty good about slowing for pedestrians at zebra crossings, he still told me I had to be better at it, and anticipate far sooner. It was a good lesson to learn.

Agreed on the comment about education for all road users, but like lots of foreigners I have often been made uncomfortable by little children walking themselves to school. I know it's the swiss way, but this incident is why it's so worrisome. I am heartbroken for the parents of that little boy.
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  #55  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:39
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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And then you get the cell-phone user, oblivious to everything else, pacing up and down near a zebra crossing? WTF is he doing? Is he crossing or not?
I nearly got taken out by a white van yesterday - I was on my bike waiting to turn left from a side road.
He came around the corner from the main road, on the wrong side of the road and having real trouble steering - he was holding his phone in one hand (The Apprentice style) having a conversation.

I think the police would also agree that him hitting me would be a lot more serious than a motorist being held up by dithering person on their phone, on the pavement.

I'm sure you can appreciate that the van driver is breaking at least two laws without hitting me:

Driving whilst on the phone.
Not in full control of the vehicle.

Your pedestrian is not breaking any laws.
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  #56  
Old 12.01.2023, 12:49
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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I nearly got taken out by a white van yesterday - I was on my bike waiting to turn left from a side road.
Must have been something in the air yesterday - I had a near miss on a zebra crossing by a bloke in a Merc. I was halfway across and he put his foot down in an ill-judged attempt to squeeze through. It must have looked dramatically close because the guy on the bike following the Merc slowed to ask if I was ok.
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  #57  
Old 12.01.2023, 13:03
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

Lots of things you should or should not do when crossing but not looking and not having eye contact with any approaching vehicles is just stupidity
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  #58  
Old 12.01.2023, 13:11
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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Lots of things you should or should not do when crossing but not looking and not having eye contact with any approaching vehicles is just stupidity
But not against the law.

Not stopping at a crossing whilst a child is waiting, is breaking the law.

Children also get distracted and when approaching a crossing where children are milling about, one should slow right down - even if the car driver behind you starts hooting his horn in impatience.
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Old 12.01.2023, 13:15
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

Coincidentally I was nearly knocked down by a cyclist riding the wrong way on a one way street. I was stepping onto zebra crossing and just barely looked to my left. Had I not jumped back I would have been ass over teakettle in the middle of the street. He didn’t stop.

I’ll repeat, Education is needed for ALL road users.
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  #60  
Old 12.01.2023, 13:21
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Re: Hit and run at Escher-Wyss Platz - 5yo killed

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Coincidentally I was nearly knocked down by a cyclist riding the wrong way on a one way street. I was stepping onto zebra crossing and just barely looked to my left. Had I not jumped back I would have been ass over teakettle in the middle of the street. He didn’t stop.
.
I was waiting for you to include an incident with one of those cyclists.

Not that I'm doubting you but some one-way streets are one-way for motorists only but both-ways for cyclists. The law was changed to allow this on most one-way city streets in 2016.

It's not the cyclists job to keep you informed of current laws.
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