Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06.11.2008, 09:49
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,523
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,734 Times in 4,345 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Red traffic light!

I wouldn't worry until the fine appears in your letter box - which it may not. I have been flashed twice in Zurich by these laser speed cameras that can be moved about. Once the camera was on my side of the road, once on the other side.

In both cases I was doing about 51KPH when I looked down at the speedo after the flash in a 50 zone. In both cases other cars were close to mine/ catching up. They were flashed too.

Both incidents were over 2 months ago and i have received nothing. It could be the camera that flashed you is set worngly...
__________________
**Triple vaxxed with Moderna plus 2021/22 season flu jab.**
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06.11.2008, 10:06
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post

I like the idea that the pedestrian has an equal access to the thoroughfare but they also are guilty of pushing the GREY envelope in their favour with the eclectic-rod FEAR FACTOR OF THE LAW working in concert. But I am assuming that my kids are much safer for this overhead which makes for powerful debating collateral?


Some of these pedestrians that may be pushing the grey envelope are other people's kids who may be walking to and from school.

Having the law working in someone's favour is a small consolation to having their child injured.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07.11.2008, 15:01
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
So - how do cameras distinguish a genuine mistake from an arrogant prick?
The problem is that the law assumes you are an arrogant prick and will treat you accordingly. This gives people the incentive to become arrogant pricks, seeing they are being treated as such regardless. Hence there are so many arrogant pricks around.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 07.11.2008, 15:13
5AVeci
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't worry until the fine appears in your letter box - which it may not. I have been flashed twice in Zurich by these laser speed cameras that can be moved about. Once the camera was on my side of the road, once on the other side.

In both cases I was doing about 51KPH when I looked down at the speedo after the flash in a 50 zone. In both cases other cars were close to mine/ catching up. They were flashed too.

Both incidents were over 2 months ago and i have received nothing. It could be the camera that flashed you is set worngly...
Flashing is not only caused by over-speeding. If you were doing 51km/h then it is safe to assume that in reality you were going slower (because of the car speedometer calibration - there are certain rules on possible error). Apart from that the camera meter has it's own tolerance and it will not fire unless certain speed is reached.
So the most likely cause for the flashing was:
a) checking of details (seatbelts, mobile phone, child seat, etc)
b) checking of the camera
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09.11.2008, 14:11
eugeneandemma's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
eugeneandemma has no particular reputation at present
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
Some of these pedestrians that may be pushing the grey envelope are other people's kids who may be walking to and from school.

Having the law working in someone's favour is a small consolation to having their child injured.

Yip - I think U got my point. Just maybe you didn't realise it. Child saftey is my paramount concern - unfortunatley (without due consideration) it's the inocent mistakes that can have the most severe outcomes.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09.11.2008, 14:15
eugeneandemma's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
eugeneandemma has no particular reputation at present
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
Flashing is not only caused by over-speeding. If you were doing 51km/h then it is safe to assume that in reality you were going slower (because of the car speedometer calibration - there are certain rules on possible error). Apart from that the camera meter has it's own tolerance and it will not fire unless certain speed is reached.
So the most likely cause for the flashing was:
a) checking of details (seatbelts, mobile phone, child seat, etc)
b) checking of the camera
Very interesting, I knew about the spedo calibration/tolerence stuff but it never crossed my mind that the camera may be set to randomly snap to check for other criteria. It makes sense though!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09.11.2008, 15:10
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
Yip - I think U got my point. Just maybe you didn't realise it. Child saftey is my paramount concern - unfortunatley (without due consideration) it's the inocent mistakes that can have the most severe outcomes.
Agreed - like the school run mother last week who, on her way to pick up her children, drove straight across the pedestrian crossing which my four year old was crossing. I stopped him in time.

My experience, in this country and in others is that generally, mothers doing the school run have scant regard for the safety of other children who may be walking to school.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09.11.2008, 18:25
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Red traffic light!

Quote:
View Post
It's gets GREY when some (and there are sooo many) indecisive driver is so mind numbingly board and unfocused on the job in hand while driving that they forget where they are or where they are going to then cause delay and alarm/frustration to other drivers;

(etc.)
There is no grey. Amber is grey. The instant a traffic light turns amber you decide if you are able to pass it or not.

In driving school they teach that you should routinely imagine a point on the street which marks the minimal distance to the traffic light you require to stop comfortably. If you have passed it when the light turns amber, you can drive past the traffic light while it still is yellow. This is roughly the same point to which you can drive and still pass while the light is amber without accelerating. In congested traffic you drive slower and the point is closer to the traffic light. At the same point you also make sure that you can leave the crossroad or pedestrian crossing, if not you stop anyway.

The law also states that the distance to the car in front of you must always be enough to stop without a collision. So there is no need for more than one car to pass a traffic light during the amber phase.

There is however a "dark-grey" phase. No fines are given during the first 0.5 seconds of the red phase. And there is also a law for the minimal duration of the amber phase in places with a red light camera.

3 seconds in a speed limit of up to 50 km/h 4 seconds if the speed limit is 60 km/h 5 seconds if the speed limit is 70 km/h or higher.
(Source: The PDF "Weisungen über polizeiliche Geschwindigkeitskontrollen und Rotlichtüberwachung im Strassenverkehr " in German on this website, page 11-12)

Maybe you have a problem in finding this point and keeping the right distance to the car in front, or you drove stressed out or don't have much routine, in which case the solution is to allow more time for driving?

Quote:
View Post
a) checking of details (seatbelts, mobile phone, child seat, etc)
No camera flashes just to check for seatbelts and mobile phones. However there are speed traps that take a picture of the front of the car and if the photo shows that you violate the cell phone or seatbelt law, this results in an additional fine. To my knowledge there is only one operating camera capable of this, in Oensingen.

More about this and camera angles in this thread.
__________________
Need help on how to post in the forum? Try the Frequently Asked Questions.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Nathu for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 21.04.2009, 02:41
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
switzerlino has no particular reputation at present
can i fight a red light violation?

Hi All,

I was driving in Zurich last night at around 1am. At that late hour, a lot traffic lights turned in the flashing yellow mode. I was driving near University of Zurich. There was one intersection, the road towards which as not straight. One has to bear to the left and won't be able to see the light pole until ~30 meters close to it. Furthermore, the lights were sort of blocked by the tram station's ad boards/shelter. So I was driving along the road, at the time when I as able to see the lights, which was like 20-30 meter away, the light was yellow. So I thought that was one of the flashing yellows as well. ( It was not flashing though, but at the speed and distance, I didn't really have a second thought.) I just ran through. When I really close to the light, it turned red. However at that point, I could not stop. I did slow down though, even nearly stopped. But my car's entire body had gone through the line. And I could see the camera flash. I wanted to back out. But there was a motorcycle stopped right before the light. I cannot stop my car in the middle of the intersection. So I proceeded. Then I saw a second camera flash from a different direction.

I heard it is a 250 CHF fine. I understand I was guilty. But taken the circumstances into account, can I plead for an reduced fine? On top of that, I really cannot afford a ticket of this much. My salary is only 1700 USD a month.

Thanks for helping out.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 21.04.2009, 08:31
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NL, UK & sometimes ZH
Posts: 6,385
Groaned at 38 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 17,590 Times in 4,500 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

welcome to the forum.

Use the search function (you will also find some threads below) as this has been discussed before and you should get an answer.

I was driving in the same area on Sat night and you do have to have your wits about you. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 21.04.2009, 08:48
vwild1
 
Posts: n/a
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Quote:
View Post
I heard it is a 250 CHF fine. I understand I was guilty. But taken the circumstances into account, can I plead for an reduced fine?
In a nutshell, no. In Switzerland if you break the law, you pay the fine. A co-worker of mine who's about 50 was caught overtaking a car on the right side while driving on the Autobahn. Since he's never had a ticket in his life he thought he could somehow get out of it or at the very least get a reduced fine. He hired a lawyer which cost him about a thousand francs but in the end he still had to pay the full fine and had his license revoked for 3 months.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 21.04.2009, 08:55
Easy's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Staufen
Posts: 95
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
Easy has no particular reputation at present
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Quote:
View Post
Hi All,

I was driving in Zurich last night at around 1am. At that late hour, a lot traffic lights turned in the flashing yellow mode. I was driving near University of Zurich. There was one intersection, the road towards which as not straight. One has to bear to the left and won't be able to see the light pole until ~30 meters close to it. Furthermore, the lights were sort of blocked by the tram station's ad boards/shelter. So I was driving along the road, at the time when I as able to see the lights, which was like 20-30 meter away, the light was yellow. So I thought that was one of the flashing yellows as well. ( It was not flashing though, but at the speed and distance, I didn't really have a second thought.) I just ran through. When I really close to the light, it turned red. However at that point, I could not stop. I did slow down though, even nearly stopped. But my car's entire body had gone through the line. And I could see the camera flash. I wanted to back out. But there was a motorcycle stopped right before the light. I cannot stop my car in the middle of the intersection. So I proceeded. Then I saw a second camera flash from a different direction.

I heard it is a 250 CHF fine. I understand I was guilty. But taken the circumstances into account, can I plead for an reduced fine? On top of that, I really cannot afford a ticket of this much. My salary is only 1700 USD a month.

Thanks for helping out.
Hi, and no you can't do anything, I'm Swiss and run red light lately. I aslo didn't want to and it was also flipping from yellow to red and I had no way to stop and it was a littel like in your case...but the police just said that I run a red light! I had to pay the fine.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 21.04.2009, 09:08
Coolio's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Igis, Gr
Posts: 210
Groaned at 24 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 91 Times in 57 Posts
Coolio has earned some respectCoolio has earned some respect
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

I was in the exact same situation in the same area a few years ago. Stopped over the line then continued as the front of my car was over the line. The light flashed and I was invited down to the police station. I received a fine of 800 sfr plus my license was revoked for a month.. This is considered dangerous driving.
Welcome to switzerland bro.. Dont even consider going to court as you will not win and you for sure end up paying a much bigger fine. Keep your fingers crossed and when you recieve the invitation go down to the police station with a sob story. Hopefully they might take pity on you and reduce the fine.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 21.04.2009, 10:13
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Quote:
View Post
In a nutshell, no. In Switzerland if you break the law, you pay the fine. A co-worker of mine who's about 50 was caught overtaking a car on the right side while driving on the Autobahn. Since he's never had a ticket in his life he thought he could somehow get out of it or at the very least get a reduced fine. He hired a lawyer which cost him about a thousand francs but in the end he still had to pay the full fine and had his license revoked for 3 months.
I didn't know undertaking was a license-losing offence! Given the Swiss penchant for driving at 100 in the left hand or middle lane, when the right lane is empty, I undertake quite a few people. I'll be more careful now.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 21.04.2009, 12:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,019
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Quote:
View Post
I didn't know undertaking was a license-losing offence! Given the Swiss penchant for driving at 100 in the left hand or middle lane, when the right lane is empty, I undertake quite a few people. I'll be more careful now.
there is no points system here PaddyG. losing your license is like the points system now back home and in UK.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 21.04.2009, 15:12
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: was Ägeri now Froggeri
Posts: 3,720
Groaned at 191 Times in 160 Posts
Thanked 4,301 Times in 1,819 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

I've done the undertaking thing to on occassion, when the centre lane was clogged, or approaching an intersection.... oops.

But the red light thing is a bang to rights job unfortunatly. Driving in town you have to have your 3rd eye open, and 20-30 meters at 50, most cars would pull up sharply in that distance. I sympathise with your plight, but Swiss rozzers are as cold & hard as a granite pillow, and any attempt to get out of this will just jack up the fine you'll have to pay.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 21.04.2009, 15:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,019
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Quote:
View Post
I've done the undertaking thing to on occassion, when the centre lane was clogged, or approaching an intersection.... oops.
but undertaking is not completely illegal. the situation you describe is acceptable i believe. i think the issue is that if you are deemed to made 'an advantage' by undertaking over your fellow travelers then yes you could get pulled. so for example these would be bad:

blatantly undertaking because the cars in the middle/outside aren't going fast enough for you!

undertaking on a multi-lane slow up, so that you can 'force' your way back in again further along.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 21.04.2009, 16:20
flow23's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,029
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 963 Posts
flow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

fighting off a fine? no way! a flash is flash is a violation is a fine.
sorry to tell you that but thats switzerland, mate...
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 21.04.2009, 16:25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
switzerlino has no particular reputation at present
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Thank you very much for you guys' posts. I understand that I was guilty. Just want to see if it is possible to have a reduced fine rate. I was talking to my co-worker about this forum, we are both very happy that we can share our life experiences in Switzerland.

We are cheap American students shipped here to finish up a project. It is way to expensive here, for people like us living with a US student salary, especially when the conversion rate is not great. To be fair, a red light violation in the States is way more expensive than here. However, we won't have traffic light blocked by things like tram stop shelter, etc. Our traffic lights are up high and on the other side of the road. Very easy to see. Anyway, I guess I just have to wait and pay the bill.

By the way, my co-worker asked me to post this. He received a speeding ticket from Germany, on his way back from visiting his distant relatives there. It was on a German highway, He went 109 km/h at a speed limit of 80 km/h. He got a letter with his photo on to demonstrate it was him driving, we guess. He didn't really want to pay it. He said he got the ticket a month ago, he didn't do anything. Since I am posting stuff on the forum, he just wanted to ask if that's gonna cause him some trouble.

Thank you guys.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 21.04.2009, 16:29
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,910
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,189 Times in 3,402 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: can i fight a red light violation?

Sure you can fight it, winning is somthing ells
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0