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  #81  
Old 14.06.2019, 20:04
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Re: All weather tires

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I had a French GF who lived in the Chamonix valley, she used summer tyres all year. When they were worn out I put on a set of Pirelli All season tyres, which performed very well in snow, TBH no obvious difference to winter tyres. I spend about 12 weeks a year in the mountains so do plenty of driving with snow on the road. The Pirelli all season tread looks like winter tread pattern rather than summer tyre pattern. The age of the tyres is far more important than anything else..... date of manufacture not date of first use.
I love All Seasons. I lived in Italy for 2yrs before moving to Switzerland in January 2018. I fitted the all seasons before moving here so my usage of tires other than summer tires is limited. The video below made me chose All Seasons instead of investing in 2 sets of tires, mostly due to cost as i didnt know if i would like life in Switzerland.The video was enough proof for me that All Season tires could cope with the needs i would have. Nowhere in my area of Italy sold Michelin CC so i had to go with Pirelli which had good reviews anyway. They are great tires but i still think that, depending on the snow/ice and conditions, nothing will beat a dedicated tire for the season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0zyQh2l3M

Last edited by ormesome; 14.06.2019 at 20:23.
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  #82  
Old 15.06.2019, 12:18
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Re: All weather tires

In reality, the cost is minimal, your summer, respectively winter tyres last twice as long as they would otherwise
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  #83  
Old 15.06.2019, 13:12
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Re: All weather tires

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In reality, the cost is minimal, your summer, respectively winter tyres last twice as long as they would otherwise
I don't think so.

If you have 8 wheels, having them changed costs 60-100 each time, once a year for each set, that easily increases the total cost by 50-100% above the purchase price during their lifetime.

And that doesn't even include the cost of rims (usually aluminum for the 2nd set). Alternatively, if you have only four rims the cost to have them changed is considerably higher each time.
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  #84  
Old 15.06.2019, 13:44
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Re: All weather tires

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In reality, the cost is minimal, your summer, respectively winter tyres last twice as long as they would otherwise

They are also more likely to get to the 'best before' date while still having a load of decent tread on them, so you end up throwing away decent tyres because you haven't worn them out, or driving around on tyres that have hardened and aren't offering the same performance as a much younger Cross Climate.
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  #85  
Old 15.06.2019, 14:17
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Re: All weather tires

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I don't think so.

If you have 8 wheels, having them changed costs 60-100 each time, once a year for each set, that easily increases the total cost by 50-100% above the purchase price during their lifetime.

And that doesn't even include the cost of rims (usually aluminum for the 2nd set). Alternatively, if you have only four rims the cost to have them changed is considerably higher each time.

Is it really that onerous if you own a car, often worth several thousand franks ?
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  #86  
Old 15.06.2019, 19:30
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Re: All weather tires

I agree with both of you. With All Season you are all set, no changing. With my 2 sets i pay around 150chf to change, balance and store the tires each change over, so per year it sets me back 300chf. The tire wear vs price of set argument should be similar for me, i keep my rims the same and just change tires. Minimal wear or tire life should cownteract the cost of two sets if tires. I dont see them outlasting the tire "best before" date.

For me, All Seasons are great but they are a jack of all trades, master of none (which is what all reviews state!). This comment isnt slating them, it is just stating that there are better options out there. Perfect for most drivers, but you wont get optimal grip compared to normal summer or winter tires. As we live in one of the "snowiest" countries in Europe, then i would always advise on using 2 sets, but if i were in the UK i would fit All Seasons straight away. Of course this is for my own circumstances and region. If you live in Zurich and rarely comute or use your car then 2 sets isnt worth it!

Last edited by ormesome; 15.06.2019 at 19:41.
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  #87  
Old 16.06.2019, 22:34
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Re: All weather tires

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Is it really that onerous if you own a car, often worth several thousand franks ?
Depends on your definition of onerous, how much you drive, and how flexible you can be.

I make 25-30k km a year. Though I can switch to public transport for a few days with acceptable "costs", that makes having two sets not just a nobrainer but an outright must.

My parents OTOH used to make 2-3k km a year when dad was still alive, they didn't use up one set. Having two sets would have caused additional costs without any gain as they simply didn't drive in difficult conditions. And, frugal as they learned to be, having two sets would probably have been detrimental as they probably would have used them longer than recommended.

Last edited by Urs Max; 16.06.2019 at 22:47.
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  #88  
Old 19.12.2019, 15:46
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Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

Hi to all,
there is the possibility that I will move near Zurich for a 6 month project that could be extended (but without certainties).
My car is a BMW F22 218i (136CV RWD) and at the moment I have the original summer tyres (Bridgestone S001 225/45 r17 91W) which I have to change in any case soon.
I would like to know if I can get Michelin Crossclimate or Continental AllSeasonContact tyres and if such tyres (which are M+S with 3PMSF certification) are ok to drive in Switzerland from January to June and more if the project will be extended.
If I will move, I will try to get a flat near my job place (one of those small cities around Zurich) but I do not know if it will require me to go up and down some hills to go working each day.
The alternative is to take proper winter tyres, but then I will have problem manging them if the project ends at the end of june and I go back to central Italy where winter tyres are not needed and less safe during hot summer.
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  #89  
Old 19.12.2019, 15:52
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

All season M&S tyres do not give the level of grip in cold conditions, so although they're better in snow than normal summer tyres. if you plan to be doing much driving in the mountains then I would personally not recommend them. But it's your choice. Read through the rest of this thread (I'm about to merge with) for more discussions on this subject.
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  #90  
Old 19.12.2019, 16:49
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Re: All weather tires

I put on a set of Vredestein Quatrac 5 (4-season) on one vehicle this year, and they seem just as good in the snow as the Goodyear UltraGrip 9 (winter) that I have on another.

Tom
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  #91  
Old 19.12.2019, 21:06
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

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All season M&S tyres do not give the level of grip in cold conditions, so although they're better in snow than normal summer tyres. if you plan to be doing much driving in the mountains then I would personally not recommend them. But it's your choice. Read through the rest of this thread (I'm about to merge with) for more discussions on this subject.

I'm speaking about 3MPSF all season tyres of high quality brand (Michelin Crossclimate plus or Continental AllSeasonContact).
Seeing the tests it seems like their are not so distant from winter tyres and they would have been in the middle upper part of a winter tyres test comparison on snow.
In any case it is truth that those test are only indicative and so maybe do not cover very low winter temperatures as the ones that sometime happen in Switzerland.
I really do not know what to do.
Maybe I could buy the all season and then if I feel that they are not enough to cope with the winter in Switzerland, I could buy a set of winter and use the all season only during the summer.
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  #92  
Old 19.12.2019, 21:17
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Re: All weather tires

If they have 3PMSF (snowflake symbol) it should be OK I guess. A premium tyre like michelin all season with 3PMSF could be better than a winter tyre without 3PMSF from a budget brand for all we know. The problem is that these things are very difficult to measure, change from car to car and there is little transparency.

Last edited by Meerkat33; 19.12.2019 at 21:29.
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  #93  
Old 19.12.2019, 21:36
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

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I'm speaking about 3MPSF all season tyres of high quality brand.
As are the ones I have.

Tom
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Old 20.12.2019, 00:16
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

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As are the ones I have.

Tom

Yes, I know.
It seems to me that there is difference between all season M+s and all season m+s with 3MPSF and maybe there is some prejudice based on the behaviour of m+s only tyres on snow or low temperature.

Your review confirms what I'm trying to understand by reading the tyres test number.
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Old 20.12.2019, 11:14
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

I've just found this test where the crossclimate is compared with winter tyres and a summer one.
https://www.gripdetective.it/news/te...contact-ts-860
It seems pretty on the same level with winter tyres on snow
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Old 20.12.2019, 11:31
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Re: Do you suggest all season tyres with 3PMSF certification

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I've just found this test where the crossclimate is compared with winter tyres and a summer one.
https://www.gripdetective.it/news/te...contact-ts-860
It seems pretty on the same level with winter tyres on snow

Xwang, cross climate tires are a compromise between winter and summer tires and they will remain so.



Some are good, some are bad but none are as good as a summer tire in the summer or a winter tire in the winter.


If you plan to go skiing and up mountains during winter, buy some winter tires for peace of mind. If you plan to saty in Zurich city, you can probably uise summer tires all year and if ands when their is a bit of snow, take public transport, which is excellent in Zurich anyway.
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Old 20.12.2019, 14:41
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Re: All weather tires

I have Michelin Crossclimate - awesome tires. More than enough for winter in Zurich.
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Old 20.12.2019, 14:46
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Re: All weather tires

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I have Michelin Crossclimate - awesome tires. More than enough for winter in Zurich.



In Zurich, certainly but not for regular trips to the mountains...
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Old 20.12.2019, 16:33
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Re: All weather tires

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In Zurich, certainly but not for regular trips to the mountains...
But he isn’t talking about regular trips to the mountains.
I don’t think the hills he might potentially go up and down on his commute to work can be considered as mountains.
Based on his posts so far I don’t think driving in the mountains is the aim here.
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Old 20.12.2019, 16:40
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Re: All weather tires

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In Zurich, certainly but not for regular trips to the mountains...

I do not think I'm going to start doing winter sports and as a tourist during the weekends, I will start by visiting the bigger cities in the valleys and I will go to the mountains when there will not be snow any more.
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