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  #61  
Old 21.06.2012, 06:43
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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I thought that it's just recommended, however I looked it up and apparently it's mandatory since 2002.

Link to the law
Die Abblendlichter oder die Tagfahrlichter sollen bei Motorfahrzeugen auch tagsüber eingeschaltet sein.3

The law says low beams or DRLs should be turned on during the dayx.
That's should, not must.
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  #62  
Old 21.06.2012, 08:54
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

Reading the TCS article it sounds as if they've gone for a progressive change by making all new cars have automatic DRL, but it's not mandatory to have lights on in current ones. However, I did see an article the other day, on bluewin.ch I believe it was, that mentioned a raft of measures to improve cycling safety (again) and one of those was to have car headlights on all the time. I'm not sure if it's been passed as a Swiss law or is still being discussed.

Frankly, I think when it's a bright sunny day having DRLs or headlights on doesn't make that much difference. If you can't see a car under those conditions you shouldn't be on the road anway. It's more a question of many road users being stupid/lazy about putting their lights on when they need them. It's amazing how many you see travelling around in thick fog, heavy rain or at night without any lights on whatsoever.
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  #63  
Old 21.06.2012, 12:12
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

I'm very happy I got the automatic headlight control option on my Mini. In the U.S. this is not really a necessary option, but here with all of the tunnels it's fantastic.

As someone who knows a number of motorcyclists, I've always supported an approach that lets them stand out among cars. If the studies say that motorcycles are just as visible when all traffic has headlamps blazing, then DRLs are fine with me. In the meantime, I'm letting my car decide when the headlights need to be on (and it seems to be quite sensitive to weather conditions and decreased ambient light) as the engineers have done their work well.
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Old 21.06.2012, 12:33
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

I have a related question. What is the law/policy/common practice regarding "flash to pass"? Again, my experience in the U.S. is that when flashed about 50% of the time people know to move out of the passing lane and back into the travel lane. 25% of the time they don't do anything and 25% of the time they get angry.

Here, most people pass and then return to the travel lane. In fact, I've only encountered one driver so far who seemed to be intentionally blocking the passing lane. Now, I am not an aggressive driver, but I do lose patience with people who break the rules of the road and a quick flash-to-pass can be a useful tool...unless it is verboten here or impolite. It is not my intention to upset any drivers, just to alert them...kind of like a small toot of the horn if they're sitting at a green light.

Any thoughts?
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  #65  
Old 21.06.2012, 13:15
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Here, most people pass and then return to the travel lane.
You haven't been here long, have you?
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  #66  
Old 21.06.2012, 14:18
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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You haven't been here long, have you?
HA! You're most certainly right. I based my assumption on only 5000km worth of driving. On the other hand, if you drive in the States for 10 minutes you'll witness plenty of bad behavior. Now I'll have to keep an eye out...
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Old 21.06.2012, 14:36
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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I have a related question. What is the law/policy/common practice regarding "flash to pass"? Again, my experience in the U.S. is that when flashed about 50% of the time people know to move out of the passing lane and back into the travel lane. 25% of the time they don't do anything and 25% of the time they get angry.

Here, most people pass and then return to the travel lane. In fact, I've only encountered one driver so far who seemed to be intentionally blocking the passing lane. Now, I am not an aggressive driver, but I do lose patience with people who break the rules of the road and a quick flash-to-pass can be a useful tool...unless it is verboten here or impolite. It is not my intention to upset any drivers, just to alert them...kind of like a small toot of the horn if they're sitting at a green light.

Any thoughts?
not sure what part of the States you are from but that 50% number is extremely generous. It is more like 5% move over and let you pass in my experience. The other 95% of the time the drivers are either self righteous drivers that think they are driving "fast enough" (even though they are holding up traffic) or are simply oblivious to the world around them. My favourite is when they add a little bit of left foot braking into the mix, or simply "rest" their foot on the brake...Then you have no idea what they are going to do.

In the 7 years I have been driving here I have never seen anyone flash their headlights to pass or to warn of a camera or accident. In my experience in ZH most people either tailgate or tailgate with their left signal on to get the point across.
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Old 21.06.2012, 14:51
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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not sure what part of the States you are from but that 50% number is extremely generous. It is more like 5% move over and let you pass in my experience. The other 95% of the time the drivers are either self righteous drivers that think they are driving "fast enough" (even though they are holding up traffic) or are simply oblivious to the world around them. My favourite is when they add a little bit of left foot braking into the mix, or simply "rest" their foot on the brake...Then you have no idea what they are going to do.

In the 7 years I have been driving here I have never seen anyone flash their headlights to pass or to warn of a camera or accident. In my experience in ZH most people either tailgate or tailgate with their left signal on to get the point across.
95% of my driving experience is in the Northeast. The number of offenders even varies by state, with Connecticut, RI and Mass. being by far the worst in terms of "passive aggressive" driving. By the way, I noticed a dramatic improvement in effectiveness when using xenon headlights for flash-to-pass as they are so intense and sharp that people perk up and clear out.

I have yet to drive in the eastern part of the country, is there a difference in the french-swiss and the german-swiss driving habits?
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Old 21.06.2012, 15:43
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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95% of my driving experience is in the Northeast. The number of offenders even varies by state, with Connecticut, RI and Mass. being by far the worst in terms of "passive aggressive" driving. By the way, I noticed a dramatic improvement in effectiveness when using xenon headlights for flash-to-pass as they are so intense and sharp that people perk up and clear out.

I have yet to drive in the eastern part of the country, is there a difference in the french-swiss and the german-swiss driving habits?
My reference point is from driving 84, the Merrit and 95 through CT....sooo many passive aggressive drivers on these roads. However, the further you are from NY the better they seem to get...

As with the States the drivers in CH will be different per Canton. There is one "famous" one for stereotypical bad driving (from a ZH point of view --not necessarily mine) ... in AG
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Old 21.06.2012, 16:05
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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My reference point is from driving 84, the Merrit and 95 through CT....sooo many passive aggressive drivers on these roads. However, the further you are from NY the better they seem to get...

As with the States the drivers in CH will be different per Canton. There is one "famous" one for stereotypical bad driving (from a ZH point of view --not necessarily mine) ... in AG
CT is definitely THE worst. Truly hostile passive aggressive drivers and yes, they don't budge. I will say, one time driving home from NYC at 11pm I crested a hill behind this woman blocking the passing lane and when I flashed to pass (she actually moved), my high beams revealed and surprised an unmarked cop at the bottom of the hill. It was quite a sight to see me and this other driver pacing each other perfectly at 67mph past the cop.

So far in Vaud, I've encountered very good driving etiquette.
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Old 21.06.2012, 16:18
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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CT is definitely THE worst. Truly hostile passive aggressive drivers and yes, they don't budge.
Nonsense, CT has the BEST drivers!

New Yorkers, on the other hand...

Tom
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  #72  
Old 21.06.2012, 16:27
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

Flashing to overtake is considered rude in most of Europe. In the UK it's only for cocks in desperate need to be on the receiving end of a road rage incident.

Back to the subject:
My old bus (2004 Espace) has auto lights, but no running lights. I only seem to get flashed in bad weather, if I've forgotten to turn them on manually.

If the law says "should" not "must", and I'm not getting a wedgie from the Insurance companies then I'm definitely saving a few hundred francs and not retro-fitting running lights. Humbug!
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  #73  
Old 21.06.2012, 16:41
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Flashing to overtake is considered rude in most of Europe. In the UK it's only for cocks in desperate need to be on the receiving end of a road rage incident.
I was thinking this might be the case!
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  #74  
Old 21.06.2012, 16:43
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Flashing to overtake is considered rude in most of Europe.
Then why else do vehicles have a "flash" function?

Tom
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  #75  
Old 21.06.2012, 17:02
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Nonsense, CT has the BEST drivers!

New Yorkers, on the other hand...

Tom
I didn't want to get started, but you got me started…

I can't speak for all of CT, but I can certainly confirm that drivers in much of Fairfield County leave much to be desired. This is especially true of many drivers driving to and from NY through north of New Haven.

"Mr. Too Fast and Far to Furious" zipping in and out of traffic in his pimped out twice lowered Honda '94 Civic in "primer grey" with a weed whacker for an exhaust passing everyone on the right, two lanes to the right, or occasionally on the left. Usually this guy is reclined so far in his seat that he could be sleeping for all I know. Unbeknownst to you his car may be able to be lowered or raised on demand and his "system" is worth more than two 94 Civics. He may have a CD or some other "stuff" hanging from the rear view mirror.

"Joey-fuggedaboutit-bag-oh-donuts" who sometimes believes that his huge [insert enormous SUV here] handles as well as a '94 Civic also passes on the right, or two lanes over while yelling at the phone (not always into the phone, but at it) forcing everyone to hit the brakes…you may occasionally see Joey on the shoulder of said highway driving at a highway speed and frequently jockeying for position in traffic because he is convinced that he will get there faster. He may work in construction and probably has a Nextel.

"Mr. Self-Righteous" who may or may not be declaring his political affiliation on his bumper, or may have some other variant of "school honor student", or "you are too close and can read this" plastered on the back of his car/minivan/suv is driving along in "his lane" or the "fast lane" at 55 (or 50) because that is the limit and it is his job to police the highways. He doesn't care that the middle lane is empty, or that there are five cars behind him.

"Mr. Jones" this guy occasionally rests his foot on the brake while pressing the gas. On a left turn across an intersection you may see him drift into the right lane. You may think he is stoned, but he is not…it is normal for him to take two miles to change lanes on the highway.

All of these people live in CT.

Now don't go and take me too seriously, I'm intentionally stereotyping drivers and people for entertainment's sake. If you have driven on 95 in CT or in NY you will know what I'm talking about.

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Old 21.06.2012, 17:05
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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I have a related question. What is the law/policy/common practice regarding "flash to pass"? Again, my experience in the U.S. is that when flashed about 50% of the time people know to move out of the passing lane and back into the travel lane. 25% of the time they don't do anything and 25% of the time they get angry.

Here, most people pass and then return to the travel lane. In fact, I've only encountered one driver so far who seemed to be intentionally blocking the passing lane. Now, I am not an aggressive driver, but I do lose patience with people who break the rules of the road and a quick flash-to-pass can be a useful tool...unless it is verboten here or impolite. It is not my intention to upset any drivers, just to alert them...kind of like a small toot of the horn if they're sitting at a green light.

Any thoughts?
A very hard question which is difficult to answer adequately. Easiest answer first: Do not pass on the right hand side on the autobahn unless both lanes are fully packed with cars. Even if it is very tempting, it is a serious offense. As no fine is given it goes to the judge BGE 126 IV 192. (Save some special circumstances BGE 124 IV 219 were its legal but still have to prove your innocence).

Technically you are allowed to give notice if you intend to overtake another car (Art. 35 Abs. 7 SVG). But you should not be too near, a.k.a. tailgaiting, too often, or with the horn during night (Art. 29 VRV). Also you should not do it if the other car has no save chance to get onto the slow lane BGE 1P.703/2003.

Additionally, if you are the one in the front, do not dip on the break pedal (BGE 117 IV 504).

Idling on the middle or passing lane is not allowed regardless of speed BGE 105 IV 55. Unfortunately, this is not as rigorously controlled as it should be in my opinion. Fine is CHF 60 , Number 314 on the list.
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  #77  
Old 21.06.2012, 17:07
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Then why else do vehicles have a "flash" function?

Tom
To:
- warn of speed cameras/police ahead
- warn of hazard ahead (for you)
- warn you've not got your lights on
- to let you out/in
- signal displeasure at your recent maneuver
- signal displeasure at you doing knee-down at twice the legal limit
- to show your team won at football (used in conjunctio with horn)
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  #78  
Old 21.06.2012, 17:20
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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I didn't want to get started, but you got me started…

I can't speak for all of CT, but I can certainly confirm that drivers in much of Fairfield County leave much to be desired. This is especially true of many drivers driving to and from NY through north of New Haven.

"Mr. Too Fast and Far to Furious" zipping in and out of traffic in his pimped out twice lowered Honda '94 Civic in "primer grey" with a weed whacker for an exhaust passing everyone on the right, two lanes to the right, or occasionally on the left. Usually this guy is reclined so far in his seat that he could be sleeping for all I know. Unbeknownst to you his car may be able to be lowered or raised on demand and his "system" is worth more than two 94 Civics. He may have a CD or some other "stuff" hanging from the rear view mirror.

"Joey-fuggedaboutit-bag-oh-donuts" who sometimes believes that his huge [insert enormous SUV here] handles as well as a '94 Civic also passes on the right, or two lanes over while yelling at the phone (not always into the phone, but at it) forcing everyone to hit the brakes…you may occasionally see Joey on the shoulder of said highway driving at a highway speed and frequently jockeying for position in traffic because he is convinced that he will get there faster. He may work in construction and probably has a Nextel.

"Mr. Self-Righteous" who may or may not be declaring his political affiliation on his bumper, or may have some other variant of "school honor student", or "you are too close and can read this" plastered on the back of his car/minivan/suv is driving along in "his lane" or the "fast lane" at 55 (or 50) because that is the limit and it is his job to police the highways. He doesn't care that the middle lane is empty, or that there are five cars behind him.

"Mr. Jones" this guy occasionally rests his foot on the brake while pressing the gas. On a left turn across an intersection you may see him drift into the right lane. You may think he is stoned, but he is not…it is normal for him to take two miles to change lanes on the highway.

All of these people live in CT.

Now don't go and take me too seriously, I'm intentionally stereotyping drivers and people for entertainment's sake. If you have driven on 95 in CT or in NY you will know what I'm talking about.

Excellent satire and indeed, so true. Much of this analysis is valid along 90 through Mass. In fact, the term "Masshole" originates from here.

I enjoyed being the absolute paradox. My car at the time was a jet black Volvo 850 station wagon, Vermont license plate, stealthily stalking and outmaneuvering all of these characters while totally unsuspecting. In the end, it wasn't about how fast you could drive but how effectively you could play the chess game. And while I'm not happy about how many people forced me to pass them on the right hand lane, in Connecticut you have to consider the lanes swapped in purpose. There'd be a train of 10 or so cars piddling along in the passing lane and at the decisive moment you would pass as many as possible while seeming to simply be traveling along. Any sign that you actually want to make a pass and they would immediately do everything in their power to block you out. It's a highly psychological game. My father and I have become experts at deciphering and manipulating passive aggressive traffic.

Here, and again this may be a relative perception, there's none of this nonsense. Driving is far more relaxing and less stressful. A welcome change.
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Old 21.06.2012, 17:22
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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I can't speak for all of CT, but I can certainly confirm that drivers in much of Fairfield County leave much to be desired.
Well, this time (local) tomorrow, I'll be there. I'll have to check out the driving!

I'm originally from Danbury, but lived in Westport and Norwalk after I finished school.

Used to drive a Z28 with far too much HP, too!

Even learned to ride a motorcycle (both on and off road) in Fairfield County, in fact I still have one that I bought new in CT back in '85!

I always thought that the drivers in MA were particularly awful, but then I moved to Ohio for 10 months.

What a relief when I arrived here!

Tom
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Old 21.06.2012, 17:40
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Re: Lights on when driving in Switzerland?

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Flashing to overtake is considered rude in most of Europe.
Fairly standard on the German motorways... IME
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