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  #21  
Old 03.07.2020, 14:59
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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The SBB wants 100CHF out of me for unfolding my folding bike 1 Min before arrival at Zurich Oerlikon in an EMPTY TRAIN (Corona Time).
Like most civil law jurisdictions, the Swiss don't go in for exceptions or extenuating circumstances, they just apply the rules. By your own admission you were travelling with an unpacked bicycle....

Common sense as applied to the rules, is that you pack up your bike, carry it on to the train and when you get to journeys end, you carry it of the train and unpack it. Now I expect that this is not what most people do, but just because they don't does not make it OK.

Cout will cost you a lot more than 20 Francs that is for sure.
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  #22  
Old 03.07.2020, 19:00
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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Best make it a literacy fund. The Germans may say "Babys" but come on, there are standards.
Hey. My daughters are both Swissies, and they don't object.
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  #23  
Old 04.07.2020, 20:56
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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There's a woman takes a folding bike on the train I sometimes catch.
She never removes the front wheel, just folds it (Brompton, so simple) and has some sort of poncho with a long velcro strap that drops down from beneath the saddle to imitate a bag, saddle stays exposed.
Works fine, not even that messy in the rain.

Personally I'm not a cheapskate and pay cfh240 (halb tax) a year to take the fullsize bike, which presents it's own difficulties on a busy train.
Both you and this Forum are Golden CodPeace. I am taking a leaf out of your personally non cheapskateesque book and buying myself a 1 Year Bike Pass!!! https://www.sbb.ch/de/abos-billette/...obillette.html Now how hard would it have been for the Rule Banging SBB Bureaucrats to have pointed that out to me?!? In the 5+ Emails from them telling me to "go jump", you think they may have thought of making that simple suggestion! The joy they derived from doling out the fine was palpable. It really got my goat. But the english Forum Jury was 100% right - you have to suck it up. Aint nuttin to be done. The SBB Swissys love enforcing Rules, even in the pettiest of circumstances. And that ain't changing soon - maybe when reasonably priced self driving electro vehicles come into play...which every year, is next year. Perhaps the Public Transit Customer will be King again one day!
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  #24  
Old 04.07.2020, 21:12
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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Hey. My daughters are both Swissies, and they don't object.
I pick my battles with my parents too.
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  #25  
Old 04.07.2020, 21:43
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

Imagine the look on their faces next time they catch you unfolding your bike and want to slap you with a fine. Oh hello there, here's my bike pass and you have a nice day too!
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  #26  
Old 04.07.2020, 22:17
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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Both you and this Forum are Golden CodPeace. I am taking a leaf out of your personally non cheapskateesque book and buying myself a 1 Year Bike Pass!!! https://www.sbb.ch/de/abos-billette/...obillette.html Now how hard would it have been for the Rule Banging SBB Bureaucrats to have pointed that out to me?!? In the 5+ Emails from them telling me to "go jump", you think they may have thought of making that simple suggestion! The joy they derived from doling out the fine was palpable. It really got my goat. But the english Forum Jury was 100% right - you have to suck it up. Aint nuttin to be done. The SBB Swissys love enforcing Rules, even in the pettiest of circumstances. And that ain't changing soon - maybe when reasonably priced self driving electro vehicles come into play...which every year, is next year. Perhaps the Public Transit Customer will be King again one day!
Apparently you didn't even bother to ask what it is you did wrong. How hard would it have been to ask, rather than going in guns ablaze?

But of course everybody else is to blame, never you, isn't it.
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Old 04.07.2020, 23:35
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

even if you have a bike GA, there are trains or commuting times where you can't carry a bike period, AFAIK.
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  #28  
Old 06.07.2020, 08:38
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Like most civil law jurisdictions, the Swiss don't go in for exceptions or extenuating circumstances, they just apply the rules. By your own admission you were travelling with an unpacked bicycle....

Common sense as applied to the rules, is that you pack up your bike, carry it on to the train and when you get to journeys end, you carry it of the train and unpack it. Now I expect that this is not what most people do, but just because they don't does not make it OK.

Cout will cost you a lot more than 20 Francs that is for sure.
Thanks very much for your Reply to my post. Your comments re/ Civil Law jurisdictions makes sense. And my view - that opening a bike on an empty train 1 min before exit does not warrant a 100CHF fine, especially for a customer who spends thousands a year on the Service, is not relevant. They apply their laws regardless of my views of the business sense. I am stuck with the SBB, until there is come comparable service. And that is probably some time away...

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Apparently you didn't even bother to ask what it is you did wrong. How hard would it have been to ask, rather than going in guns ablaze?

But of course everybody else is to blame, never you, isn't it.
Relax Max! - of course I asked why they were issuing a fine. Perhaps nuanced english is not your forte? Did you ask me politely if I asked without firing first? That is clearly your fault and not mine! (that's irony max - go read up on it and dont shoot the messager - your SBB job is safe...)

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even if you have a bike GA, there are trains or commuting times where you can't carry a bike period, AFAIK.
Thanks for the heads up. I will make sure i am within the allowed times.

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Imagine the look on their faces next time they catch you unfolding your bike and want to slap you with a fine. Oh hello there, here's my bike pass and you have a nice day too!
That's right! I will enjoy pulling out my Velo GA behind my middle finger... (just jokes...)

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here ist says:
"For hygiene reasons, folding bikes must be folded up and packed away."

OP, I think you will have no success trying to argue that you were not in the wrong.

If, however, you wish to plead for lenience, perhaps because this is a first offence, and perhaps because it wasn't rush-hour (I presume, since the carriage was empty), you may succeed if you tread very, very lightly, and apologise for not having first done the requisite research, to understand the rules.

Don't be put off the combination train and bicycle, though, as it's a wonderful way to see Switzerland, so I hope you still have many good trips ahead of you.
Treading lightly is sage advice. I have never trodden lightly in my entire life. Has not helped me at all in this SBB fold up bike battle...

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I am sorry about what happened to you, but I think that you 'unintentionally' transported a bike without a ticket when you unfolded your foldable bike before the train stopped. I don't think the ticket inspectors (and also not the transportation rules) take into account...
- that you rode most of the time with the bike folded.
- that there was space on the train as the train was empty
- that you weren't interfering with other passengers
- that you intended to follow the rules and didn't intend to transport your bike unfolded.

The inspectors have some personal descrection to decide if they will fine someone or not and obviously they didn't use that descretion with you.

You've already been in touch with the SBB customer service and they haven't agreed with your case. My advice would be to give this up and pay the fine.

If you don't want to do this, a possible next contact person would be the Ombudsman for public transportation in Switzerland. Their contact information is here.
This is an accurate, empathetic summary of the matter. Thanks very much for taking the time to write it and for giving me the link to the Ombudsman's Office - much appreciated.

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I think you'll find that as a cyclist you are completely above the law. If they persist with this nonsense I suggest the European Court of Human Rights .
Now you must have been caught by a loose pedal once or twice on a crowded swiss train! I will add your petition to mine at the Euro Human Rights Court.

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Best make it a literacy fund. The Germans may say "Babys" but come on, there are standards.
We is gonna make it a Sense of Humour Fund - is more needed!

Last edited by roegner; 06.07.2020 at 09:32. Reason: Merging consecutive posts, please use multiquote?
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  #29  
Old 06.07.2020, 10:10
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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Both you and this Forum are Golden CodPeace. I am taking a leaf out of your personally non cheapskateesque book and buying myself a 1 Year Bike Pass!!!
So... You're balking at a 100CHF fine, but you're happy to spend 240CHF on a bike abo, rather than simply making sure you don't unfold your bike on the train in future?

Well, that makes sense.
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  #30  
Old 06.07.2020, 11:21
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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So... You're balking at a 100CHF fine, but you're happy to spend 240CHF on a bike abo, rather than simply making sure you don't unfold your bike on the train in future?

Well, that makes sense.
I am not happy about it - but it is the lesser of 2 evils. The Velo GA at 240CHF opens a cyclist's virtuous wheel / Pandora's Box. 1. I dont have to waste 3 Min each way folding and unfolding the bike. 2. I get to ride a real bike and not one that is built for a circus performer. 3. I dont have to carry a bag for the fold up bike. 4. I can jump on a Train whenever i get really tired or it rains so hard i cant see the road, no matter what bike i am on that day. Pandora could go on and on, but Pandora is a cyclist (and hence above the law (especially pedantic SBB laws), so she is perhaps singing without an audience. No doubt it now makes sense? - Dont answer that!
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  #31  
Old 06.07.2020, 13:13
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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No doubt it now makes sense?
Logical, but still seems a bit daft. But whatever floats your boat.
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  #32  
Old 06.07.2020, 14:43
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

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4. I can jump on a Train whenever i get really tired or it rains so hard i cant see the road, no matter what bike i am on that day.
... as long as it is not during rush-hour. Or on certain trains where bicycles are not allowed.

But yes, you'll almost certainly always get home safely.
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  #33  
Old 06.07.2020, 15:11
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

Why not be very polite, and ask if you buy the Bike GA, would they then refund the CHF 100, or at least part of it? Might work, might not. In any case it's your right to go to court, but look at CHF 2,000 to begin, rather than CHF 20 (where in the world can you go to court for just chf 20 ???) and then expect to lose!

SBB state the conditions of carriage, and even if by 1 minute you did not obey those conditions, you are in the wrong. It's a rules based society here.

As a matter of interest, did you argue with the inspector or did you humbly apologize that you did not know? I once wrote the wrong date on a day pass and by apologizing to each inspector and explaining what I'd done, they let it go. They do have discretion but it so often depends on the attitude of the traveler.
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Old 14.07.2020, 22:16
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Re: Fold Up Bike on an SBB S Bahn

My suggestion is to pay the fine, I've been in the court with a multi-billion company like SBB, and instead, to pay 40 quid I end up to pay 540, money always wins. Of course, you expect maybe a more human approach but human nature is fading away at this time and the money factor is taking over the whole planet like cancer.
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