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  #81  
Old 19.04.2021, 08:49
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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Is there any evidence to support this?
I would have thought the chances of getting it from someone with a negative PCR test would be lower than someone vaccinated but not tested, but I have no evidence for that either.
I also don't know what the spread rate would be for people wearing masks properly, following hygiene rules and social distancing, even if some were covid positive.

You should think of vaccinations as protecting you, not necessarily protecting others.
more and more data is coming out. But the variants mix it all up, every new variant does.

The fact remains that a pcr test is very accurate on the day of, but 3 days later who knows. So vaccinated tourists are probably safer looking at this side of things.
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Old 19.04.2021, 09:04
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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The fact remains that a pcr test is very accurate on the day of, but 3 days later who knows.
More like 3 hours...the very next viral load from the next cloud of virus could be the one to tip someone into seroconversion. By the time you get the results, the PCR is a snapshot of history, not a promise.
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  #83  
Old 19.04.2021, 09:22
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

Anecdote: picked up my wife last evening from the ZH airport. A painfully tanned crowd in flip flops passed through arrivals. Painfully because it looks like a 1st degree burn or allergic reaction to some food instead of careful exposure to sunlight.

Anyway, while some people doubt about what to do, other people is returning from 1-2 weeks in a sunny place.
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Old 19.04.2021, 09:31
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

I have to say, without judgement, that it does seem odd to me that the response to a global pandemic is the cry of "what about my holidays?" Personally I am not travelling outside of the country as I simply wouldn't enjoy it at the moment, it doesn't feel right to me, and the risk of something going wrong simply makes it not worthwhile in my opinion.
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Old 19.04.2021, 09:35
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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More like 3 hours...the very next viral load from the next cloud of virus could be the one to tip someone into seroconversion. By the time you get the results, the PCR is a snapshot of history, not a promise.
Exactly. It is still some hope and some good business.
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Old 19.04.2021, 10:02
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

Also relevant:

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Two thirds of employees in the (air travel) industry are currently on short-time work, adds Daniel Lampart from the Swiss Confederation of Trade Unions. Even in normal times, many would find it difficult to make ends meet financially.
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/luft...-reisefreiheit
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Old 19.04.2021, 10:04
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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Not sure what you're calculating there. Active cases here according to Worldometers are around 54,000 out of a population of 8.7 million. So 0.6%. UK is 113K out of 68 million so 0.17%.

Agreed Egypt are officially lower but they have only tested less than 3% of their population so it's anyone's guess what their real rate is.

Not saying you're wrong. Just challenging the numbers you use as justification.
I just lifted them directly from a link posted earlier https://covid.observer/ch/ which appears to be counting all recorded cases since the beginning.

Accurate or not, or indeed relevant, I don't know, nor am I basing any sort of justification on them; I was simply using it to demonstrate in very broad terms the relative risk of holidaying in a low risk area, while observing all sensible precautions, compared with someone going to the UK to cuddle their grandchildren.
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Old 19.04.2021, 10:12
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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Wouldn't this point to the fact that some already have an inherent immunity? Tough to calculate how many have this but like you, I know several where 1-2 in the family caught COVID and the others were unaffected.
That would be a reasonable conclusion, yes. And just like those who've been vaccinated, there will for most "immune" people be a period after contracting the virus where they still have it and could potentially pass it on, before the body kills it off without having shown any symptoms.
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  #89  
Old 19.04.2021, 10:23
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

It's also useful to look at local infections rates (to the extent you can be confident in the testing abilities of the target location) along your travel path. (We are technically pendlers, and we must carry *lots* of paperwork--another thread). We have our favorite routes that include overnights far from the madding crowd and offering minimal contact with the host. They leave a key on the counter, take our paperwork (passes, PCRs, etc.) away to an office for copying, provide a packed breakfast waiting for our exit. If we must pass through a red zone, we don't stop at all. We've identified petrol stations that are quiet and outdoor, with CC at-pump payment. It takes a lot of preparation on various regulations websites in several languages. Even so, we've been detained at the Biarritz border and lectured by some cop who insisted we had to have a PCR. He was wrong: The official French regulations required no such thing at that time. After 20 minutes he let us go with a threat of a 300E fine in the mail. The moral of the story is that you are at the mercy of whatever gatekeeper happens to be on duty at the time. P.S.: We never heard from the French again. P.P.S.: Last month at the FR border, there was no one on duty.
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  #90  
Old 19.04.2021, 10:43
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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Even so, we've been detained at the Biarritz border and lectured by some cop who insisted we had to have a PCR. He was wrong: The official French regulations required no such thing at that time. After 20 minutes he let us go with a threat of a 300E fine in the mail.
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The moral of the story is that you are at the mercy of whatever gatekeeper happens to be on duty at the time. P.S.: We never heard from the French again. P.P.S.: Last month at the FR border, there was no one on duty.
Ahh, isn't it always like this? I can write volumes on dealing with small people with a lil' power....
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Old 19.04.2021, 23:07
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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I have to say, without judgement, that it does seem odd to me that the response to a global pandemic is the cry of "what about my holidays?" Personally I am not travelling outside of the country as I simply wouldn't enjoy it at the moment, it doesn't feel right to me, and the risk of something going wrong simply makes it not worthwhile in my opinion.
This, totally.

And some of us will have to agree to disagree- and we are all entitled to our opinions.

And I will stick to mine, that wanting a 'holiday' abroad is very different to wanting to spend time with your own children - not just 'close' relatives or sibblings. Very different when it is a llife long partner, the children you gave birth to- and raised- and it makes no different if they are young one, teenagers or in late 40s as my two. And our grandchildren we have seen grow from day one- that love is like no other. I am fully aware that some will not understand- and that is OK.

We would never ever moved here if we had known a time would come when we would not be able to see them for over a year. We moved in the knowlede we were never further away than 1 day in the car, or train, or flight- whenever we wanted to be with them, or were needed. And especially when they have gone through a really tough time, beyond Covid- recently. Our grandchildren are teenagers- we don't cuddle them, and we will all be vaccinated (not the kids of course) and will meet outside and be sensible. We will stay in our very own accommodation, and drive in one go- no airports, no contact- will take own drinks and food for journey. And not until the end of May- and only if.

As said, disagree if you wish. Your prerogative.
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Old 20.04.2021, 07:36
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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This, totally.

And some of us will have to agree to disagree- and we are all entitled to our opinions.

And I will stick to mine, that wanting a 'holiday' abroad is very different to wanting to spend time with your own children - not just 'close' relatives or sibblings. Very different when it is a llife long partner, the children you gave birth to- and raised- and it makes no different if they are young one, teenagers or in late 40s as my two. And our grandchildren we have seen grow from day one- that love is like no other. I am fully aware that some will not understand- and that is OK.

We would never ever moved here if we had known a time would come when we would not be able to see them for over a year. We moved in the knowlede we were never further away than 1 day in the car, or train, or flight- whenever we wanted to be with them, or were needed. And especially when they have gone through a really tough time, beyond Covid- recently. Our grandchildren are teenagers- we don't cuddle them, and we will all be vaccinated (not the kids of course) and will meet outside and be sensible. We will stay in our very own accommodation, and drive in one go- no airports, no contact- will take own drinks and food for journey. And not until the end of May- and only if.

As said, disagree if you wish. Your prerogative.
These are your precautions for a family visit where every adult is vaccinated? Wow. You will never get back to normal.
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  #93  
Old 20.04.2021, 07:42
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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These are your precautions for a family visit where every adult is vaccinated? Wow. You will never get back to normal.
The Australian government basically said that they won’t open there borders even once every single Australian resident is vaccinated World’s gone bananas! We’ll never get back to normal in that case.
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Old 20.04.2021, 08:07
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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The Australian government basically said that they won’t open there borders even once every single Australian resident is vaccinated World’s gone bananas! We’ll never get back to normal in that case.
Won't open the borders to tourists? In or out? That's weird.
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Old 20.04.2021, 08:18
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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Won't open the borders to tourists? In or out? That's weird.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...96ab9e6c2a615a

Health Minister Greg Hunt has dampened international travel hopes even further, claiming even after the whole country is vaccinated against COVID-19 there is no “guarantee” borders will reopen.

“Vaccination alone is no guarantee that you can open up. And this was a discussion that in fact I had with Professor Murphy in just the last 24 hours, that if the whole country were vaccinated, you couldn’t just open the borders,” he said at a press conference on Tuesday.
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Old 20.04.2021, 08:34
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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The Australian government basically said that they won’t open there borders even once every single Australian resident is vaccinated World’s gone bananas! We’ll never get back to normal in that case.
They hardly said "never open" did they? They clearly imply they will not open simply as a reaction to everyone being vaccinated, meaning that it has to be done in a controlled manner when they are sure it's safe to do so.
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Old 20.04.2021, 09:05
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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This, totally.

And some of us will have to agree to disagree- and we are all entitled to our opinions.

And I will stick to mine, that wanting a 'holiday' abroad is very different to wanting to spend time with your own children - not just 'close' relatives or sibblings. Very different when it is a llife long partner, the children you gave birth to- and raised- and it makes no different if they are young one, teenagers or in late 40s as my two. And our grandchildren we have seen grow from day one- that love is like no other. I am fully aware that some will not understand- and that is OK.


As said, disagree if you wish. Your prerogative.

In your vision, where is the strength of attachment to adoptive children or step children? Anyway, sure, I don‘t understand why your relationship is any more special than so many others, and that is fine. “Family” means so many things to many people. I hope you‘re able to go to visit your family.

I guess my bottom line is this.....I’m not doubting your need to visit family. But I also recognize that other people in different circumstances have equally valid needs. So clearly, I‘ve not understood, but you graciously gave permission for that.

I‘m done here.
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Old 20.04.2021, 09:34
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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We would never ever moved here if we had known a time would come when we would not be able to see them for over a year. We moved in the knowlede we were never further away than 1 day in the car, or train, or flight- whenever we wanted to be with them, or were needed.
"We plan, God laughs" it's defo something many people can relate to.
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Old 20.04.2021, 10:07
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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In your vision, where is the strength of attachment to adoptive children or step children? Anyway, sure, I don‘t understand why your relationship is any more special than so many others, and that is fine. “Family” means so many things to many people. I hope you‘re able to go to visit your family.

I guess my bottom line is this.....I’m not doubting your need to visit family. But I also recognize that other people in different circumstances have equally valid needs. So clearly, I‘ve not understood, but you graciously gave permission for that.

I‘m done here.
And then people can meet their family half way through, in a hol destination. In some circumstances it could be safer. I wonder if that'd pass the EF holiday police filter.

Last edited by MusicChick; 20.04.2021 at 10:23.
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Old 20.04.2021, 10:41
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Re: Holidays abroad during Covid

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And then people can meet their family half way through, in a hol destination. In some circumstances it could be safer. I wonder if that'd pass the EF holiday police filter.
All Spanish islands in the Atlantic and Mediterranean are open for tourism and linked with direct flights from CH. I guess EF holiday police is not that effective.
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