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Old 22.01.2023, 12:44
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Can the Swiss really be trusted

The company that is.

Seems one should never request a refund.

https://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/kon...ken-weg-564394


PS: Story is in German. So Google translate for English
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Old 22.01.2023, 12:58
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

Let's see if I understand correctly: a man wanted to change an expensive, non-changeable ticket, but he was annoyed about the waiting time on the phone, so he stopped calling and asked for a refund on the web. And then he got it, but only the refundable part, which is peanuts... and now he's pissed because the company should have know what he really wanted.

And according to the consumer magazine, any clic or confirmation done on the web can be revoked at any time, by just saying that you actually wanted something different. So basically no online contract would be binding anymore?

I would also be #&@! had I lost 6000 CHF and probably the company should offer the guy something just because of PR but making it a legal principle...
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Old 22.01.2023, 13:12
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

To be fair, doing anything complex using online forms can often lead to frustration and unwanted consequences.

Sometimes it's just better to call the help desk. Or use a travel agent to begin with.

Having said that, the customer did try to contact the help desk. He had booked a non-refundable but with option to reschedule flight but couldn't fly on the original date so he tried to call the help-line. After various attempts with 20-minute waiting times, he gave up and decided to rectify his situation by using an online-form. That's why he pressed the "request for refund" button.

Was the passenger duly informed that when clicking the "refund" button, he had lost any possibility of a refund due to booking a non-refundable ticket? It sounds as if he wasn't and therefore thought naively his amount wasn't lost but just put in an account to be used for another time.

I personally believe Swiss is at fault here for not providing adequate customer service. I believe they should have credited the passenger his money in a voucher form with a two-year expiry date. Situation solved and any negative publicity avoided.
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Old 22.01.2023, 13:24
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

Anyone got a definition of “non-refundable”?
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Old 22.01.2023, 13:28
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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Anyone got a definition of “non-refundable”?
The customer wanted to reschedule, which was an option. His attempts at rescheduling failed due to:

1) long waiting times at the help desk (according to the customer)
2) Inability to reschedule properly using the website
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Old 22.01.2023, 13:38
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

Actually I have long been unhappy with Swiss' services. Exactly, long wait times and cancelled flights because they did not have enough passangers (which they refused to refund each time but got refund via a 3rd website).

Hence if I have another option I do not choose Swiss for a number of years already. Only if Swiss is the only flying, other's are too bad or times don't suit at all.
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Old 22.01.2023, 13:46
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

In defence of airlines - non-refundable tickets are generally a lot cheaper than standard tickets.

Buy a cheaper ticket but take out adequate travel insurance to cover having to cancel the flight.

If you just feel like cancelling on a whim then buy the (more expensive) tickets that allow you to do this.
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Old 22.01.2023, 14:32
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

The new swiss business model... if you pay cheap your ticket (which is still more than it ever was) you can expect nothing for free... want to change your seat when checking in online, 30 francs, want some luggage, pay up... 25 francs.. want to make a change to flight back, forget it... it's cheaper to buy a new one, honestly, with a fictional return date...
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Old 22.01.2023, 14:36
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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The new swiss business model... if you pay cheap your ticket (which is still more than it ever was) you can expect nothing for free... want to change your seat when checking in online, 30 francs, want some luggage, pay up... 25 francs.. want to make a change to flight back, forget it... it's cheaper to buy a new one, honestly, with a fictional return date...
To be fair, it's not a new one...easyJet have been doing it for years
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Old 22.01.2023, 14:46
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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To be fair, it's not a new one...easyJet have been doing it for years
And the objective of airlines is to make a profit, not to be 'nice guys'.

Think twice before you buy anything non-refundable. Or something that you can change for a fee. Sometimes it better to pay more.

At the moment the difference in prices for hotel non-refundable and flexible is around f20/night. We now opt for the flexible and have paid less in the long-term.
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Old 22.01.2023, 14:55
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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Think twice before you buy anything non-refundable. Or something that you can change for a fee. Sometimes it better to pay more.

At the moment the difference in prices for hotel non-refundable and flexible is around f20/night. We now opt for the flexible and have paid less in the long-term.
It depends also on how much in advance one buys. For hotels it does make sense but as a relativelyfreuqent flyer changable tickets are not worth it. Expected loss given the probability of cancelling is way below the price difference for me. Only did not make once and had to change flight another time so fat in my approx 40 years.

But all these depend on the person so is everyone's own decision.
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Old 22.01.2023, 16:49
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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I personally believe Swiss is at fault here for not providing adequate customer service.
This is highly possible... but then one should analyze the website and complain in case of incomplete or misleading information. The supporting association hasn't claimed this, at least not according to the article posted. This is why I disagree with their conclusions.
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Old 22.01.2023, 18:41
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

hm, I had twice similar experience:
- first time it was me who needed to change the flight a night before due to some emergency. I couldn't get to the customer service in time, so I cancelled the flight, got 10% back, and bought a new ticket. I couldn't find a better option.
- second time, Swiss cancelled my flight and offer me a laughable replacement flights. I was hanging on Swiss app for 8 hours before I managed to get a human operator that arranged replacement flight. Which was again cancelled. At the end I complained to Swiss (who sold me the ticket) and got nothing. Than I complained to Lufthansa (who was the flight operator) and got 50% of the ticket's value back as "a good gesture".
I wanted to say, changing the ticket with Swiss can be extremely frustrating experience, sometimes even impossible. With the new chatbots they just went from "bad" to "extremely frustrating"
Years ago I stopped flying with RyanAir and EasyJet as I was fed-up with how they treat passengers. I would put Swiss on my personal black list, but it is hard, as often it is the only one offering directs flight to my destinations.
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Old 22.01.2023, 18:47
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

In case of cancellation you should have had your money back? The cases where it happened to me I claimed under that european regulation and got the full amount back.

So far no issues for me with Swiss (fly them almost weekly), and I buy mostly flights that can be rebooked.
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Old 22.01.2023, 19:32
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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Actually I have long been unhappy with Swiss' services. Exactly, long wait times and cancelled flights because they did not have enough passangers (which they refused to refund each time but got refund via a 3rd website).

That is because you booked via 3rd party website and not Swiss directly !
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Old 22.01.2023, 19:51
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

My flight was rescheduled, I was offered a flight back next day with earlier start and 8 hours of stopover. It was a very bad option for me, I was not even close to the city with the departing airport. On the app you got 2-3 option to reschedule, and all were practically the same. To reschedule to something that would work for me, I needed to contact the customer support. I started it at 14h and finally I managed to change the flight after the midnight.
I was claiming later compensation under the EU regulations, but the answer from Swiss was that the flight was cancelled due to safety reasons, and in that case they are exempted from their obligations. And that for them the case is closed. Lufthansa was later much nicer.

All in all, according to my experience, Swiss customer support is extremely bad. It is hard to reach it, especially through app. If you by accident go out of the chat, you have to start the whole process anew, and wait again. I know it, I did it at least 50 times.
I didn't want to complain about what happened to me. I wanted to relate to the article from the OP. In a situation:
- your flight is changed on a short notice
- you cannot get in contact with customer service
- your only option is going through the options offered by app
which is finally to cancel the flight. Swiss is reducing the access to their customer service on the expenses of their passengers.
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Old 22.01.2023, 19:52
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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That is because you booked via 3rd party website and not Swiss directly !
yeah, it doesn't matter in my experience. I am buying always directly through Swiss.
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Old 23.01.2023, 10:56
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

I had an issue with Edelweis, which belongs to Swiss as far as I know. Completely terrible experience, my luggage was lost and even though I understand that it was not them that lost the luggage, they did everything possible to avoid paying a refund for costs incurred. I tried more than 2 months to talk to someone reasonable, the standard response was that the Luggage Department would get back to me... Unacceptable level of service when they charge almost CHF 400 for a 1.5 hour flight.

Another case, a year ago or so, Swiss flight was cancelled literally when on the gate, waiting to board. Couple of hours waiting on the line with many angry customers, only to be offered alternative flight late on the evening of the next day, just hours before the return flight. No refund, no other options. In the end, the money was lost and it was a fortunate event that a train option was also available. Of course it was not just the airplane ticket that had to be forfeited, but also no-show charges for car rental and hotel, everything had to be booked again.

I have travel insurance now, situations like this happen more and more and the frustration can really ruin your holidays.

Quote:

In case of cancellation you should have had your money back? The cases where it happened to me I claimed under that european regulation and got the full amount back.
Well, you are lucky... They can claim whatever they want to get out of it, bad weather, technical issue, etc...
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Old 23.01.2023, 11:08
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

It's Switzerland, not Swiss.

Oh wait, it really is Swiss this time.
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Old 23.01.2023, 11:37
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Re: Can the Swiss really be trusted

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It's Switzerland, not Swiss.

Oh wait, it really is Swiss this time.
Actually, it's German because Lufthansa owns Swiss.
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