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  #21  
Old 11.04.2011, 18:38
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Because thieves don't care if you make it illegal, do they? That's why they steal things in the first place. If you outlaw the equipment, you can catch them much easier.
exactly.

so why not punish people for committing crimes instead of punishing them for potentially being able to commit crimes even if they have no intention of doing so?
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  #22  
Old 11.04.2011, 19:01
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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exactly.

so why not punish people for committing crimes instead of punishing them for potentially being able to commit crimes even if they have no intention of doing so?
Because you can prevent more crimes by raising the bar. Just as you can get into jail for an illegal gun BEFORE you robbed a bank. There is no legitimate need for an illegal gun, there is no need for lock picks, credit card copying machines or indeed IMEI reprogramming devices. It's like the guys that offer you to "correct" your mileometer... they are fishy from the start.

And you still didn't explain why you'd need it. What did you toast?
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  #23  
Old 11.04.2011, 19:22
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Because you can prevent more crimes by raising the bar. Just as you can get into jail for an illegal gun BEFORE you robbed a bank. There is no legitimate need for an illegal gun, there is no need for lock picks, credit card copying machines or indeed IMEI reprogramming devices. It's like the guys that offer you to "correct" your mileometer... they are fishy from the start.
even guns and knives you can licence and are not illegal and i think changing the IMEI number on your phone is not worse than murder.
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  #24  
Old 11.04.2011, 23:11
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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In the UK it is illegal to own any equipment that can be used to change the IMEI number of a phone and the penalties for breaching this are harsh and without need for criminal intent.

Does anyone here have reference to similar laws in Switzerland?
Your IMEI is kind of like a MAC address on a computer, it's just a device identifier. What's more important for billing and security is your phone number (MSISDN) and maybe SIM number as well. I'm pretty sure changing you IMEI is against the law in most countries, but I don't really know where to find that explicit law. You could probably ask ComCom or BAKOM directly, as they are the ones responsible for laying down the telco laws in CH.
http://www.comcom.admin.ch/org/00759...x.html?lang=en

By the way, if your phone is stolen, reporting the IMEI to have it "blacklisted" is pretty much a waste of time. It could be possible that your specific operator may be willing to block it, but that's about as far as it will go. True, there was (or is) supposed to be some central IMEI registery where phones would get blacklisted internationally, but no operators really use that that I know of. There's millions of phones out there, and the whole issue of reporting, blocking, etc. is more hassle than it's worth. If you lose your phone, just forget about it. Well, make sure you call your operator and have the SIM card blocked, but forget about blacklisting the IMEI. If you lose your laptop, you wouldn't call your ISP and ask to have the MAC blacklisted, would you?
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  #25  
Old 12.04.2011, 08:44
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

The IMEI number also "tells" the network some details about your phone. Things like make and model, GPRS and MMS functionality and a few other things. Also from a law enforcement point of view, to listen in on a GSM conversation you need both the IMEI and SIM number to calculate Ki and decrypt the call. I've actually worked with a phone that changes it'd IMEI number after every call which makes eavesdropping only possible at the switch level.

Back on topic. It's not necessarily illegal to change your IMEI number but there is no good (legal) reason to change it.
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  #26  
Old 12.04.2011, 09:51
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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there is no need for lock picks
Sure there is. On more than one occasion, I have lost a key and had to pick (or drill out) the lock.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 12.04.2011, 11:41
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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even guns and knives you can licence and are not illegal and i think changing the IMEI number on your phone is not worse than murder.
All I said is that the equipment to change an IMEI should be regulated and it probably is. Just as you cannot get a license to carry agun around without working for a security service that can proof the need - you should not be allowed to run around with equipment that is most likely used to facilitate the trade with stolen goods.

If you want anything useful out of this thread simply tell us what your problem with the phone is...
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  #28  
Old 12.04.2011, 17:45
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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If you want anything useful out of this thread simply tell us what your problem with the phone is...
The problem is I want to change the IMEI number and I want to find out if it is legal to do so or not in Switzerland.
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  #29  
Old 12.04.2011, 17:49
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Your IMEI is kind of like a MAC address on a computer, it's just a device identifier. What's more important for billing and security is your phone number (MSISDN) and maybe SIM number as well. I'm pretty sure changing you IMEI is against the law in most countries, but I don't really know where to find that explicit law. You could probably ask ComCom or BAKOM directly, as they are the ones responsible for laying down the telco laws in CH.
http://www.comcom.admin.ch/org/00759...x.html?lang=en

By the way, if your phone is stolen, reporting the IMEI to have it "blacklisted" is pretty much a waste of time. It could be possible that your specific operator may be willing to block it, but that's about as far as it will go. True, there was (or is) supposed to be some central IMEI registery where phones would get blacklisted internationally, but no operators really use that that I know of. There's millions of phones out there, and the whole issue of reporting, blocking, etc. is more hassle than it's worth. If you lose your phone, just forget about it. Well, make sure you call your operator and have the SIM card blocked, but forget about blacklisting the IMEI. If you lose your laptop, you wouldn't call your ISP and ask to have the MAC blacklisted, would you?
Depends on who steals it and where it ends up. There are countries with no provisions to block phones by IMEI. In some countries there are many 'blank' IMEI phones.
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  #30  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:04
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

Actually, I also wrote a program to change the MAC address of my phone. Luckily, I didn't distribute this as I could be breaking the law in the UK due to the widely drawn wording of the UK act, which refers not to the IMEI, but a "unique device identifier".

(2)A unique device identifier is an electronic equipment identifier which is unique to a mobile wireless communications device.
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  #31  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:11
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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The problem is I want to change the IMEI number and I want to find out if it is legal to do so or not in Switzerland.
Why do you want to change your IMEI number? What's the point?
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  #32  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:20
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Whose IMEI do you want to change your handset number to?
What we all really want to know
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  #33  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:22
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Why do you want to change your IMEI number? What's the point?
The same kind of question was asked of photographers about why they wanted to take photos of buildings in public etc. in the context of anti-terrorism legislation.

To me, this is the wrong way around. If you want to do something and there is no harm in doing it, then why should it be made illegal?

Anyway, I wrote to my MP just now in the UK to explore whether it is possible to amend the law. I don't have high hopes, but at least I can try.
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  #34  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:37
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

Seems to me like a bit of a pointless question...

if it IS your phone, and you change the IMEI, how will anybody ever know anyway? Surely the only reason to be worried is if the phone has a dodgy past?
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  #35  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:39
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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The same kind of question was asked of photographers about why they wanted to take photos of buildings in public etc. in the context of anti-terrorism legislation.

To me, this is the wrong way around. If you want to do something and there is no harm in doing it, then why should it be made illegal?

Anyway, I wrote to my MP just now in the UK to explore whether it is possible to amend the law. I don't have high hopes, but at least I can try.
lol...I'm not saying it should be illegal, or that you shouldn't do it. Photographers want to take photos of buildings for artistic or sentimental reasons. Are these reasons really applicable to your wish to change your IMEI? If not, may we, the targets of your request for assistance, be so bold as to enquire?
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  #36  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:42
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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If not, may we, the targets of your request for assistance, be so bold as to enquire?
this makes no sense.
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  #37  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:43
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

Yep, he bricked it...
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  #38  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:44
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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this makes no sense.
You asked us, we ask you.
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  #39  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:44
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

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Seems to me like a bit of a pointless question...

if it IS your phone, and you change the IMEI, how will anybody ever know anyway? Surely the only reason to be worried is if the phone has a dodgy past?
the point is not just the IMEI but other unique device identifiers such as MAC address. e.g if you copy your settings from one phone to a new phone, you can also clone some settings such as your MAC address.

aside from being an offence in the first place, you then need to commit a second offence to fix it as otherwise you can't use 2 phones on the same WIFI network.
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  #40  
Old 12.04.2011, 18:46
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Re: Swiss laws on IMEI

Oh ok I was under the impression that changing the imei required physically manipulating the phone!
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