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Old 22.05.2011, 23:02
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True HD on FTA satellite?

Are there any free-to-air broadcasters on satellite who are sending true HD (1080p)? Failing that, are there any true HD broadcasts on pay services? HD Suisse seems to be only 720p. The programming can be anything (EN, DE, FR), I'm just curious to see true HD on broadcast TV to see what it's like (as opposed to off a Bluray disc).
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  #2  
Old 22.05.2011, 23:28
porsch1909
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

There is no full 1080p broadcasts in Switzerland. I don't know of any country that broadcasts full HD
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  #3  
Old 23.05.2011, 09:46
DavidInBern
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

I'm pretty sure that no TV Stations in the world transmit in 1080p. The increase in bandwidth and cost isn't worth it.

Uncompressed 1080p would run at about 3Gb/sec. BBC HD (1080i) on Freesat runs at about 10Mb/sec, in H.264.

Buy a Blueray, and kid yourself that it's money well spent.

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 13:27
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

Thanks, suspected it might be a bandwidth issue. I already have a BR player, I was just curious what the best broadcast feed might be. Having said that, some of the 720p documentaries on HD Suisse do look quite nice.
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Old 23.05.2011, 14:27
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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I'm pretty sure that no TV Stations in the world transmit in 1080p. The increase in bandwidth and cost isn't worth it.
I think all the sat-tv channels will have to shift to HD in time, ok maybe 1080i like BBC HD and others, but that's good enough I think.

As for increase in bandwidth, if you compare todays DVB-S (Standard) and DVB-S2 (HD), isn't a DVB-S2 channel fitting in the same radio bandwidth as DVB-S, just using higer modulation (8PSK instead of QPSK) and higher video compression (MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2)?
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Old 23.05.2011, 15:30
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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As for increase in bandwidth, if you compare todays DVB-S (Standard) and DVB-S2 (HD), isn't a DVB-S2 channel fitting in the same radio bandwidth as DVB-S, just using higer modulation (8PSK instead of QPSK) and higher video compression (MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2)?
DVB-S/DVB-S2 & SD/HD are two independant choices. You can have DVB-S HD, just as you can have DVB-S2 SD.

But yes, DVB-S2 MPEG-4 8PSK HD transmissions occupy the same bandwidth (or less) as DVB-S MPEG-2 QPSK transmissions did a few (1 or two) years ago.

But this isn't being used to deliver higher quality. It's being used to deliver the same quality at lower cost. Or in the case of UK Freesat, fit in more 'pay to transmit' niche channels of garbage.

Dave

Dave

Last edited by DavidInBern; 23.05.2011 at 15:32. Reason: Mong fingers and an iPad keyboard
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  #7  
Old 23.05.2011, 15:41
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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I think all the sat-tv channels will have to shift to HD in time, ok maybe 1080i like BBC HD and others, but that's good enough I think.
There's no point transmitting in HD if you don't have the high quality source material to transmit.

90% of the old US and UK programmes you see on UK Freesat were recorded in 4:3 Standard Def on analogue videotape.

They look bad enough in low bitrate SD. They aren't going to look any better in HD.

A very wise (and very very technical) friend of mine once said " You can polish a turd, but all you get is a shiny poo".

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 15:59
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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But yes, DVB-S2 MPEG-4 8PSK HD transmissions occupy the same bandwidth (or less) as DVB-S MPEG-2 QPSK transmissions did a few (1 or two) years ago.

But this isn't being used to deliver higher quality. It's being used to deliver the same quality at lower cost.
Oh, why can't all telecom companies learn to use technology for good rather than evil...

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Or in the case of UK Freesat, fit in more 'pay to transmit' niche channels of garbage.
How much does it cost per month to buy time/channels on a transponder? I'm seeing some weird-a$$ FTA stuff on when I do a scan, and I'm really wondering who's paying for this garbage
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  #9  
Old 23.05.2011, 16:40
DavidInBern
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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How much does it cost per month to buy time/channels on a transponder?
How much does a mobile phone cost?

It all depends on where you want it transmitted, where you want it received, what quality you want, how long a contract you want to sign, and whether or not the shiny suited salesman has achieved his sales quota for the month. And many other factors.

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 16:46
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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There's no point transmitting in HD if you don't have the high quality source material to transmit.

90% of the old US and UK programmes you see on UK Freesat were recorded in 4:3 Standard Def on analogue videotape.

They look bad enough in low bitrate SD. They aren't going to look any better in HD.

Dave
The same was once true of black & white...
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Old 23.05.2011, 16:53
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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I'm pretty sure that no TV Stations in the world transmit in 1080p. The increase in bandwidth and cost isn't worth it.

Uncompressed 1080p would run at about 3Gb/sec. BBC HD (1080i) on Freesat runs at about 10Mb/sec, in H.264.

Buy a Blueray, and kid yourself that it's money well spent.

Dave

I was getting 1080i a few years ago back in Canada. I figured they would be up to 1080p now as well.

Amusing how many 1080p tvs have been sold in the last 5 years (vs 720p) and how many people actually have a bluray player as well.
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Old 23.05.2011, 17:04
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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I was getting 1080i a few years ago back in Canada. I figured they would be up to 1080p now as well.

Amusing how many 1080p tvs have been sold in the last 5 years (vs 720p) and how many people actually have a bluray player as well.
1080p TV are generally higher spec in other departments. Putting the full number of pixels on the screen is the easy bit!
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Old 23.05.2011, 17:43
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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Putting the full number of pixels on the screen is the easy bit!
Really? Do tell.

What other differences do 1080p TVs have?

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 17:49
porsch1909
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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Really? Do tell.

What other differences do 1080p TVs have?

Dave
Like I said in general the top spec TVs with the best contrast ratios, best blacks, best refresh rates, best brightness, and other extra features are the Full HD 1920 x 1080 sets rather than the 720p sets.

I'm not saying you can't get excellent 720p sets (mine is 720p) but I'm not sure you will find a flagship TV display that isn't a 1080p set.
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  #15  
Old 23.05.2011, 17:54
DavidInBern
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

Thanks, that's a very...illuminating explanation.

And in news just in
http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/23/bbc_hd_1080p/

According to this website report, dated today, BBC is tranmitting a mixture of 1080i and 1080p..

Sounds dubious to me.

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 17:55
porsch1909
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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Thanks, that's a very...illuminating explanation.

And in news just in
http://www.reghardware.com/2011/05/23/bbc_hd_1080p/

According to this website report, dated today, BBC is tranmitting a mixture of 1080i and 1080p..

Sounds dubious to me.

Dave
What did I say which you don't agree with Mr. Condescending?
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  #17  
Old 23.05.2011, 18:11
DavidInBern
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

I agree entirely. Full HD TV sets a better than non-Full HD sets.

You don't work at Fust by any chance?

Dave
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  #18  
Old 23.05.2011, 18:22
porsch1909
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply in your 'oh so clever' sarcastic manner.

Are you saying that those factors don't effect image quality?

If you have a 720p signal on a 720p TV and a 1080p TV...wouldn't the one with the better contrast ratios etc. look better?
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  #19  
Old 23.05.2011, 18:35
DavidInBern
 
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

It depends what you are watching. 720p will possibly look better on your 720p set, than upscaled onto a 1080 set.

But if you think that 'true HD', downscaled to 720p, will look better on your lower resolution set, then I have a 300 Franc HDMI cable you might be interested in.

Dave
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Old 23.05.2011, 20:11
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Re: True HD on FTA satellite?

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1080p TV are generally higher spec in other departments
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Like I said in general the top spec TVs with the best contrast ratios, best blacks, best refresh rates, best brightness, and other extra features are the Full HD 1920 x 1080 sets rather than the 720p sets.
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If you have a 720p signal on a 720p TV and a 1080p TV...wouldn't the one with the better contrast ratios etc. look better?
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But if you think that 'true HD', downscaled to 720p, will look better on your lower resolution set, then I have a 300 Franc HDMI cable you might be interested in.
Do you actually know what side you're arguing for or are you just making it up as you go along?
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