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  #41  
Old 23.10.2007, 23:35
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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In order of your comments, 17" ibook 17" pc notebook, same.

I have a G3 ibook that is a blow dryer from the on button being pressed, IBM thinkpad, now there is silence.

Mac and PC have similar housings my friend.

Funny how Mac is using Intel dual core processor now.

Your comments on Windows are amusing, but if you find a Mac that has the programs availability like Windows does, chances are you found a Mac with Windows loaded on it!! You don't see Windows trying to load Mac OS..or their software.

before we get off topic, maybe start a new thread on this. it could take the forum froma friendly place to a hoe-down. yeeahhh hawww!
The iMac is the quietest desktop PC on the market, period. I don't understand how you can compare the iMac formfactor to any other PC, everything on the iMac is built right into the monitor (Gateway is trying to copy the iMac formfactor now). You are right, the amount of software for a Mac is less than for the PC, but I can still do everything I need to do with my Mac, and much of PC software is just crap you don't need (firewall, antivirus, anti-spyware) on a Mac. Besides it is fully known Windows Vista is a complete and utter failure (hence this thread), and XP is so incredibly bug ridden.. patch after patch after patch. But then again, it's all about preference and I prefer a stress free computing experience and therefore choose OS X, let the masochists out there enjoy the pain of Winblows.
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  #42  
Old 24.10.2007, 16:27
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

from my experience, those who are open to apple computing and excited by what they find out, you should advise them to check out apple and they will find out the cool stuff by themselves.

those who are generally not open to apple, better to just let them be.

i had cause to switch on my 2 year old vaio at the weekend, for the first time in a good while. i can only say that to perform a relatively simple task was just completely bad comedy. first i had to install updates. then restart. then install the program i wanted then restart the machine again. all the while about 20 pop up windows at least, warning about this and that, and whatever not working.... hahahaha my oh my, those were the days.
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  #43  
Old 24.10.2007, 16:46
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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from my experience, those who are open to apple computing and excited by what they find out, you should advise them to check out apple and they will find out the cool stuff by themselves.

those who are generally not open to apple, better to just let them be.
That's as maybe but it doesn't answer the question.. It clearly states "PC" not "Mac or PC"
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  #44  
Old 24.10.2007, 17:10
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

a mac is a pc without windows (windows optional on intel models of course)
otherwise steg, arp, fust, pchai will build u a barebones as u want and u sort out the OS yourself.
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  #45  
Old 24.10.2007, 17:49
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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a mac is a pc without windows
No it isn't, What happened to Linux in this? Or even Unix? or Novell or if you want to go back that far.. MS-DOS, DR-DOS, PC-DOS? None of those have Windows installed on them and I certainly wouldn't call them a Mac.. A Mac is a computer with Mac OS installed on it.

Fust do not provide Non-Swiss keyboards (in Valais at least, I've asked), Steg do, but they're at extra expense (I've asked there too) I've never heard of Arp or Pchai so can't comment, but the earlier comment reell is quite correct. If you ring them, they will supply you with a machine with a UK or US (or any standard keyboard from any part of the world where Dell make PC's) for no extra charge (I know because I asked, and eventually got one)

Alternatively, there's EBay, or if you really want the choice, there's Easyjet and a weekend Shopping Trip to Tottenham Court Road. (Although I seem to recall that the question referred to buying it in Switzerland so junk that idea.)
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  #46  
Old 24.10.2007, 18:26
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

to clarify I meant pc in the broad sense of a personal computer.
ergo a mac is a personal computer in a broader than "ibm-compatible pc" sense.
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  #47  
Old 24.10.2007, 18:51
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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No it isn't, What happened to Linux in this? Or even Unix? or Novell or if you want to go back that far.. MS-DOS, DR-DOS, PC-DOS? None of those have Windows installed on them and I certainly wouldn't call them a Mac.. A Mac is a computer with Mac OS installed on it.
Perhaps you aren't up to date with the latest Macs.

They are now Intel based and are delivered with OS X, which is an Apple GUI on top of a Unix operating system (BSD based).

They can run Linux and Windows too, either as dual boot systems, or using a product such as Parallels, which supports running DOS, Windows (any flavour) or Linux in a virtual machine on OS X.
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  #48  
Old 24.10.2007, 20:13
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

You said that a PC without Windows is a Mac, which is factually incorrect. I fail to see how a Mac is a PC in a broader sense than a Windows PC since the Hardware compatability list is much much much smaller than Windows.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest, as we're off topic already, but why put OSX in bold, since it's been available since 2001? It's hardly new.
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  #49  
Old 24.10.2007, 21:16
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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You said that a PC without Windows is a Mac, which is factually incorrect. I fail to see how a Mac is a PC in a broader sense than a Windows PC since the Hardware compatability list is much much much smaller than Windows.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest, as we're off topic already, but why put OSX in bold, since it's been available since 2001? It's hardly new.
agreed we're off topic a better way of putting it for the OP is that for a similar price they can order a Mac product online in CH and choose the keyboard and OS language among other options.

Just curious :if an intel chip Mac capable of running windows isn't a PC, what is your definition of a personal computer?
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  #50  
Old 24.10.2007, 21:38
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

Yes, that's a better way of putting things. More useful to the questioner too.

My definition of a PC is a computer running Windows, and I'm far from alone. The reason I chose this definition is because pretty much every popular computing magazine and the media world in general infers this definition. PC Format, PC Plus, PC Pro and so on all use this definition to refer to Windows based computers where Mac and Linux magazines have the words Mac or Linux in their titles.

Whilst any computer that is not acting in a server role and capable of being taken home fits the strict definition of a personal computer, it does not fit the implied definition of the acronym "PC". I suppose strictly we should be referring to Windows computers as WC's for all sorts of reasons not least because the acronym fits, but it's not a fight I'm inclined to fight anyhow as they'll take away my Gold Certified Partner status.
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  #51  
Old 24.10.2007, 21:45
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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In order of your comments, 17" ibook 17" pc notebook, same.

I have a G3 ibook that is a blow dryer from the on button being pressed, IBM thinkpad, now there is silence.

Mac and PC have similar housings my friend.

Funny how Mac is using Intel dual core processor now.

Your comments on Windows are amusing, but if you find a Mac that has the programs availability like Windows does, chances are you found a Mac with Windows loaded on it!! You don't see Windows trying to load Mac OS..or their software.

before we get off topic, maybe start a new thread on this. it could take the forum froma friendly place to a hoe-down. yeeahhh hawww!
I'm with you.. Let's move this off thread and have a deathmatch over the wonderful delights of Bill Gates' offerings versus Steve Job's versus Jonathan Schwarz versus Linus.. Seconds out.. Rounds one!
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  #52  
Old 24.10.2007, 22:17
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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a mac is a pc without windows (windows optional on intel models of course)
otherwise steg, arp, fust, pchai will build u a barebones as u want and u sort out the OS yourself.
In fact a PC is a Personal Computer so any of these names are a PC .
Most of us that build computers know that not all components run smoothly together. Hardware needs software to run properly and maintain it's functionality, otherwise they would just be a bunch of components that do nothing.
Choose your OS first and your Hardware needs to be built around that.
Customize your machine to suit your needs and it will last longer than a "barebones".
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  #53  
Old 24.10.2007, 22:19
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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No it isn't,
PC = Personal Computer. No one mentioned OS when they termed computers a PC.
Just like a Ford is a Car. Not a great one (model pending), but still called a car.
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  #54  
Old 24.10.2007, 23:01
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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Let's move this off thread and have a deathmatch over the wonderful delights of Bill Gates' offerings versus Steve Job's versus Jonathan Schwarz versus Linus.. Seconds out.. Rounds one!
I don't think "a deathmatch" over operating systems is appropriate for this forum.

By all means let us know what you do for a living so that folks here can look you up if they want to, but please let's not have it degenerate into OS wars.
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  #55  
Old 24.10.2007, 23:19
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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PC = a car.
If you're going to paraphrase me then I will too. What I said was that a PC without Windows wasn't a Mac, it's not, it's a barebones PC, should it have Linux on it, it's still a PC, but it's certainly not a Mac, and it's not a car either.

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I don't think "a deathmatch" over operating systems is appropriate for this forum.

By all means let us know what you do for a living so that folks here can look you up if they want to, but please let's not have it degenerate into OS wars.
Awww, but it'd be so much fun!!

Perhaps people have taken me a little seriously though.. I wasn't trolling, just having some fun because I thought other people were too, sorry if I annoyed anyone. I have been trying to move this to the off topic area, which seems more appropriate, but as an Englishman in Switzerland, if this site in general is an inappropriate place to have some friendly banter, I'm not sure what its point is.

I run a IT consultancy company from Sion specialising in all areas of SME support, my clients are mainly based in London. My details are available elsewhere on this site, feel free to IM me, just don't me.
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  #56  
Old 25.10.2007, 02:19
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

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Awww, but it'd be so much fun!!
No. Please remember that there are a lot of non-IT folks here, who wouldn't understand all that stuff. I don't understand a lot of it either.

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...but as an Englishman in Switzerland, if this site in general is an inappropriate place to have some friendly banter, I'm not sure what its point is.
The point of this forum is to swap info about living here in Switzerland, hopefully help others here, and enjoy a multinational cultural exchange. You don't have to be English to join, any nationality is welcome, but the forum language is English.

The banter comes later once you swap experiences of this country and get to know the people here.
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  #57  
Old 25.10.2007, 10:18
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Re: Where I may buy the PC without Vista and German keyboad

OK, just to keep JVC happy, I've started a thread in the Off Topic are for anyone who wants to argue about PC's and Mac's PC-Wars

JVC, I have to disagree with you, friendly banter doesn't need to be earned, it's a natural by-product of being English. I'm not so young and Switzerland isn't the first non-UK country I lived in, some of your comments here could be misinterpreted as belittling. I agree that this thread is going off topic so I've done the above. My experience, like a number of people using this forum, is with computers, just because you don't understand what I'm talking about doesn't remove my right to talk about it if I'm in a related thread, computer people, like anyone else, have their own brand of humour that can often be completely opaque to non-computer people, but we're still human beings. I don't understand football, it's completely opaque to me, but there's a thread on this forum about English football, and I respect the right to discuss it, in the right thread, please respect mine, if you don't want to play, that's fine, if my lonely comment is the only one on the above thread, that's sad but fine too.

Thanks. I've already posted my answer to the question here, so I won't post on this thread again, if you want to bait me, come to the one above and let the games begin.
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