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  #21  
Old 13.08.2012, 12:51
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

If somebody comes with question like that... I would ask, do you really want DSLR? There are good advices here from people who like this style of shooting. But there are drawbacks

- price can get enormous for lenses, for little better image you can pay 5x more
- switching lenses, and unavoidable loss of many moments, just because they are too close/too far; possible dirt on sensor/sens because of that
- bulk and weight. if you do mountains, or long hikes this might affect your trips in a bad way. I would never go for DSLR for these activities just because of these reasons, and I know people who stopped doing more serious stuff just because the got into these kits.

Just an example from real life - I was on 3 week vacation in Tanzania recently (safari, kili, zanzibar). I just had my old Panasonic FZ-38 ultrazoom.
It was funny and sad at the same time to watch all those guys with multiple lens setup, missing many beautiful shots, unable to zoom as far as they wanted (200 is very far from ~450, today you can get 25-1000 in 1 small camera). A lot of frustration in crowd. Or those guys with 3 cameras with different lenses. They didn't miss much, but they had maybe 7 KG hanging on their neck, and maybe same amount in cases around.

So ask yourself, is picture quality (meaning technical quality) really the most important factor for you? Or do you take photos in dark/night? If yes, then go for DSLR. If price/value, ease to use, weight & size, normal nature & family photos are the target, reconsider. You don't hear from majority of DSLR owners, who have 1 basic lens (usually 18-55 kit), never buy more, their photos suck even at auto and they know it.
Photographer makes nice photos, not equipment
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  #22  
Old 13.08.2012, 12:53
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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but which brand of film camera should you use? slr, tlr, rangefinder, view camera? and then 35, 6x6, 6x7, 645, large format? colour or B&W? slide or neg? tri-x vs HP5 vs Neopan? fast + grain or not? which developer/fixer? agitate more or less? what kind of paper would should you use? which enlarger? etc. etc. etc.

at least with consumer dslr, you're really limited to canon vs nikon (pentax, sony? etc. etc. , please )
Rangefinder 35mm: Leica M7
Rangefinder 6X7: Mamiya 7ii
SLR 6X7: Mamiya RZ67 Proii

Colour negative: Kodak Portra 160NC, 400
Colour Reversal: Fuji Velvia 50, 100, 400

B&W: Ilford Delta 100, Delta 400, HP5, Delta 3200, Kodak Tmax 100, Tri-X 400

Developer: Ilford DD-X, Kodak HC-110b (@ 1:31)
Filxer: Ilford Rapid Fixer, Hypam

Manufacturers recommendation on agitation.

Papers:
Ilford MG VI RC deluxe (Glossy, Satin)
Ilford MG VI RC Warmtone,
Ilford MG VI Fiber (Matt)
Ilford Art300

Enlarger: Durst 1200 with Ilford Multigrade 500h head

Finishing: Ilford Ilfolab RC1250 Print dryer. Canvas Fiber Dryer.

Simples.
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  #23  
Old 13.08.2012, 13:02
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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SLR 6X7: Mamiya RZ67 Proii
Simples.
Mamiya RZ67 ProII with Leaf Aptus 65S digital back.

Even more simples
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  #24  
Old 13.08.2012, 13:31
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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Rangefinder 35mm: Leica M7
Rangefinder 6X7: Mamiya 7ii
SLR 6X7: Mamiya RZ67 Proii

Colour negative: Kodak Portra 160NC, 400
Colour Reversal: Fuji Velvia 50, 100, 400

B&W: Ilford Delta 100, Delta 400, HP5, Delta 3200, Kodak Tmax 100, Tri-X 400

Developer: Ilford DD-X, Kodak HC-110b (@ 1:31)
Filxer: Ilford Rapid Fixer, Hypam

Manufacturers recommendation on agitation.

Papers:
Ilford MG VI RC deluxe (Glossy, Satin)
Ilford MG VI RC Warmtone,
Ilford MG VI Fiber (Matt)
Ilford Art300

Enlarger: Durst 1200 with Ilford Multigrade 500h head

Finishing: Ilford Ilfolab RC1250 Print dryer. Canvas Fiber Dryer.

Simples.
btw, i found a medium format project for sale in zurich HB! only 6x6 but at least i can see my slides now in (almost) full glory!
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  #25  
Old 13.08.2012, 14:34
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

Nobody explicitly mentioned ergonomics but I think it's important for all cameras used on the go.

And one of the main features for me here is the power source. Or the source of frustration. Brilliant AAs get undeservedly left behind and even Pentax stopped using them, as it seems (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...atterySearch=1). For the last 10 years I didn't consider seriously cameras on proprietary batteries but now I'll probably have to.

Quality and price are very important, of course. But if you use something for a long time, you'll eventually have to pay attention to its ergonomics, too, and you'll either love or curse it. So it is something to consider. Especially, for the beginners and those primarily shooting outdoors. People said DSLRs aren't meant to work properly on AAs but I can get more than a thousand shots on my Pentax Kx on a single Eneloop charge. Simpler cameras would last even longer.

And yes, I would recommend Pentax Kx as ticking most of the boxes for the OP (great ergonomics, good quality). Well, the price was great, too, but now it's gone up as it seems. Probably, because its' been discontinued. Newer models Pentax Kr and K30, according to the specs, can also work on AAs but with an adaptor.
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  #26  
Old 13.08.2012, 14:46
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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... Please let me know which DSLR is a good buy. I am a novice and would like to dive in DSLR's ...
"Novice" and "dive into DSLR" in the same sentence makes me wonder ...

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If somebody comes with question like that... I would ask, do you really want DSLR? There are good advices here from people who like this style of shooting. But there are drawbacks

...

Just an example from real life - I was on 3 week vacation in Tanzania recently (safari, kili, zanzibar). I just had my old Panasonic FZ-38 ultrazoom.
It was funny and sad at the same time to watch all those guys with multiple lens setup, missing many beautiful shots, unable to zoom as far as they wanted (200 is very far from ~450, today you can get 25-1000 in 1 small camera).

...

Photographer makes nice photos, not equipment
Let me second the suggestion of a superzoom as a gateway into serious photography.

These cameras have a viewfinder (OK, electronic, not optical), a whole slew of manual controls, most shoot raw, and an absolutely incredible range of focal lengths.

I used a Panasonic FX-28 for about three years, learning a lot in the process, before upgrading to a DSLR. I am not sure that the upgrade was such a good idea.

Just as with DSLRs there are many manufacturers but two stand out, in this case Panasonic and Canon.

And yes, the most important piece of photographic equipment is not in your hands, it is inside your skull
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  #27  
Old 13.08.2012, 15:01
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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btw, i found a medium format project for sale in zurich HB! only 6x6 but at least i can see my slides now in (almost) full glory!
I eventually found one too :-)

I found a ProCabin 6X6, 6X7 projector with a 650W bulb :-) Originally manufactured for Mamiya. Which one are you using and what kind of shop did you find it in?
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  #28  
Old 13.08.2012, 15:28
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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"Novice" and "dive into DSLR" in the same sentence makes me wonder ...
why?


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Let me second the suggestion of a superzoom as a gateway into serious photography.

These cameras have [...] an absolutely incredible range of focal lengths.
which is actually bad for a beginner. Fix-Focals force you to think about framing and perspective.
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  #29  
Old 13.08.2012, 15:28
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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How slow is slow?

We're looking at getting a DSLR because the point and shoots are often too slow.

Also, as a second lens, 55-200 or 55-300?

Thanks,

Tom
Too slow to shoot what I would call a decent "action sequence" probably just around 2-3 fps even though the brochure talk says 4fps. That's why I use professional gear. No idea what you're shooting Tom, but I don't personally own any lenses with that kind of zoom range, the one that came with the D5100 was a 55-200, which seems to be OK, a bit soft on the edges at the telephoto end. It's not going to win awards, but it is cheap and cheerful.
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  #30  
Old 13.08.2012, 15:31
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

Figure out your budget, walk into a camera shop and ask to see what is available in that price range. Pick up the cameras, hold them, ask to take a couple of shots with each one and see what suits you best. The best camera is the one that feels right in your hand.

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Dear All

Please let me know which DSLR is a good buy. I am a novice and would like to dive in DSLR's, but before investing I thought it would be good to ask the experts here! I dont want to compromise on picture quality but yes, it should not be awfully heavy and crazily priced.

Thanks a lot!
PS: Is there someone looking to sell theirs / a deal worth interesting?
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  #31  
Old 13.08.2012, 15:37
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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Dear All

Please let me know which DSLR is a good buy. I am a novice and would like to dive in DSLR's, but before investing I thought it would be good to ask the experts here! I dont want to compromise on picture quality but yes, it should not be awfully heavy and crazily priced.

Thanks a lot!
PS: Is there someone looking to sell theirs / a deal worth interesting?
You just missed out on this deal, what a pity. There are loads of great second-hand deals to be had. So many tech junkies upgrade and sell off quality gear. This goes for lenses too. There are great lenses to be had at good prices.
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  #32  
Old 13.08.2012, 16:39
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

I'm a big Canon fan, in my experience (out of Asia, so no idea here) they are slightly pricier bodies with slightly cheaper glass... and as lenses are hideously addictive, I go for cheap glass

Also, avoid the kit lens and get yourself a nice nifty 50 to begin - cheap, sharp and a good way to learn technique (though your body may make it a de-facto 80mm with the crop).
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  #33  
Old 13.08.2012, 16:54
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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Too slow to shoot what I would call a decent "action sequence" probably just around 2-3 fps even though the brochure talk says 4fps. That's why I use professional gear. No idea what you're shooting Tom, but I don't personally own any lenses with that kind of zoom range, the one that came with the D5100 was a 55-200, which seems to be OK, a bit soft on the edges at the telephoto end. It's not going to win awards, but it is cheap and cheerful.
My wife (who would be the main person using it) likes especially low light (morning, evening, etc.) and action shots (animals), both of which are problematic with point and shoot, whereas when we borrowed my sister's EOS (not sure which model), these problems went away. Sometimes, time from shutter pressing to taking the picture would be several seconds, due to AF problems, which really bothers my wife (I usually do still stuff, so not such a problem for me).

Tom
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  #34  
Old 13.08.2012, 16:59
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

As all the others said, which model and make you choose doesn't really matter in terms of quality and functionality for a beginner.

My 2 cents in favour of Canon and Nikon, that are both excellent camera and lens makers: the second hand market is much bigger for them than for other brands, so it's much easier to find lenses and accessories on ebay or similar.

Don't listen to camera nerds discussing ISO, megapixel count, full frame vs APS-C etc. etc. otherwise you might end up spending money for un-necessary features. As the others say in this thread, there are really no bad DSLRs on the market.

Don't listen to Canon fanboys and Nikon fanboys telling you that the other one is bad

Go to a shop, find a camera in your budget range, take it in your hands and see if you are comfortable with the placement of the controls and buttons.

Don't buy lots of lenses in the beginning, a generic 18-55 zoom (or for instance the very popular 18-200 for Nikon) is enough. After using the camera for a while you will understand better which type of photos you like to shoot and then you'll buy other lenses more suitable for the pictures you shoot.
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:17
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

I suggest the Canon 550D or 600d, best bang for the buck right now.
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  #36  
Old 13.08.2012, 18:42
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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I suggest the Canon 550D or 600d, best bang for the buck right now.
I would agree with this. The 600D is also pretty good for movies (not a camcorder replacement - I'm talking carefully made single camera stuff). People have recommended a 5D mark II on this thread and that's simply too much camera for a novice; get the 600D with a simple zoom.

Once reason to go for Nikon (and I'd recommend the excellent D7000 here, which I use) is to tap into the large number of older Nikkor manual focus lenses in the market place. However, Canon can also use these lenses with a simple $50 adapter.

[Until fairly recently I was a Nikon and Leica film user (check out the website in my profile) - now converted to Nikon D7000 for the Nikkor lenses and an Epson RD-1 for the Leica lenses]
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  #37  
Old 14.08.2012, 00:44
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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I eventually found one too :-)

I found a ProCabin 6X6, 6X7 projector with a 650W bulb :-) Originally manufactured for Mamiya. Which one are you using and what kind of shop did you find it in?
i got a Rollei P11. i saw it in the 2nd hand part of photo ganz in Zurich HB.
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Old 14.08.2012, 00:44
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

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Dear All

Please let me know which DSLR is a good buy. I am a novice and would like to dive in DSLR's, but before investing I thought it would be good to ask the experts here! I dont want to compromise on picture quality but yes, it should not be awfully heavy and crazily priced.

Thanks a lot!
PS: Is there someone looking to sell theirs / a deal worth interesting?
https://www.digitec.ch/ProdukteDetai...Artikel=208690
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  #39  
Old 14.08.2012, 04:27
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion

I'm pretty sure you don't need a DSLR. I'm pretty sure because I have no idea what I'm talking about... Just like you.

I always wanted to get into photography and finally decided to actually do so. I started with a borrowed compact camera and pretty soon knew that I needed something more (I'm very fascinated by HDR photography and new I wanted something that could do the bracketing thing). I talked to some of my photographer friends and borrowed some of their gear.

I realized that to get started and learn you just have to bring your camera everywhere and grab every opportunity to point and shoot. But I never felt like taking this huge monster anywhere. So I decided to get something smaller but with all the features you need to learn the basics. I finally got a Sony NEX-5 kit with two lenses. The image quality is amazing and it has all the features you need to get started.

Once I really know what I want (from experience, not from all the nerdtalk you read on the internet) I can get a DSLR camara and still use the NEX as a travel companion since it's quite small.
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  #40  
Old 14.08.2012, 08:47
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Re: DSLR Camera Suggestion


http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-SMCP-FA...Pentax+SMCP-FA

+


http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-SMCP-FA...Pentax+SMCP-FA
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