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Old 04.09.2012, 09:39
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So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

So, what do you think the big news from Photokina will be this year?

Personally, i'm hoping for a Nikon D5200 and D7100, as i'm looking to migrate away from Pentax after many years. The 5100 has plummeted in price lately, so an upgrade looks imminent, though specs seem scarce. The 7100 has almost no real rumours, so looking unlikely. The D600 Full Frame will also be released I gather, but that's probably a bit out of my budget and above my needs. Definitely an option to pick up on the used market in a year or so though.

For me in the end it's probably a choice between a Nikon D5200 and a Canon 650D, as the new Canon 18-135mm kit lens seems very cool, and apparently the touchscreen interface implementation is as slick and mature as a second or third generation effort.

What news are you hoping/waiting for?

I'm still tempted to buy a ticket for Photokina and get a last minute hotel, would probably be a fun day out.
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Old 04.09.2012, 10:57
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

Main rumour is that of a Nikon D400 - this would be a replacement of the 300 & the 7000 series.

The D600 is looking to be an incredible little camera - for about 600chf more than the 7000
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Old 04.09.2012, 11:41
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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Main rumour is that of a Nikon D400 - this would be a replacement of the 300 & the 7000 series.

The D600 is looking to be an incredible little camera - for about 600chf more than the 7000
Hmm, but if the D400 was relased would it make sense upgrading the D7100, or vice versa? Seems like there's be some crossover!
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Old 04.09.2012, 11:43
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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Hmm, but if the D400 was relased would it make sense upgrading the D7100, or vice versa? Seems like there's be some crossover!
I suspect there will be no D7100 - from what i have read the new D400 will be the replacement - but - the roumours are still quite loose at the moment.

either way the d7000 is a far superior camera to the 5000 series
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Old 04.09.2012, 11:59
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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I suspect there will be no D7100 - from what i have read the new D400 will be the replacement - but - the roumours are still quite loose at the moment.

either way the d7000 is a far superior camera to the 5000 series
The D5100 has the same sensor as the D7000, so IQ is pretty much very similar. Of course the D7000 has more advanced features and higher FPS, but the D5100 is certainly still a great mainstream and above entry-level DSLR.

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Old 04.09.2012, 12:23
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

very true - does the 5000 have AF in the body?
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Old 04.09.2012, 13:53
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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very true - does the 5000 have AF in the body?
No AF motor, if that's what you mean.
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Old 13.09.2012, 08:25
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

Well, it may not be Photokina yet, but the Nikon D600 has now been officially announced...

DPReview blurb and press release http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09...ed-1080p-video

DPReview Hands-on Preview http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09...n-D600-preview

A FF DSLR for around 2000 chuffs... doesn't seem too bad especially since it is essentially a very similar camera to the D800 barring the slightly downgraded AF system (same or tweaked version of D7000, maybe Slaphead can comment on how good that is) and smaller chassis (with a few less controls). FPS is higher at 5.5 vs 4 on the D800 too!

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We haven't had long with the D600 but it's hard not to be impressed. There are two ways of looking at the new model as it sits within Nikon's current lineup - as a beefed-up D7000, or as a slimmed-down D800. Both are equally valid. The D600 offers a highly compelling entry into full-frame for D7000 owners (not to mention D300/S owners...) but it also offers an awful lot of DNA from the D800 at a considerably lower price, making it attractive to people who were holding out for a D800 price-drop or just want a cheaper FX-format second body alongside a D800 or D4.

Nikon should be commended for not skimping on features in order to keep the D600's costs down or protect sales of more expensive models. We've seen all of this spec before, but the cameras we've seen it in have been impressive products. The D600 might have 12 fewer AF points than the D800, but it offers the same AF system as the D7000, which we know performs really well. Its sensor has 12 million fewer pixels than the D800, but it still beats or rivals anything else out there in terms of pixel count, and we have no reason to expect image quality to be a weak point.

As far as handling is concerned, the D600 is extremely similar to the D7000, with the addition of a redesigned live view switch. As such, anyone used to shooting with that model (or a D800, and to a lesser extent the D4) will find everything pretty easy to find. The D600 is a bigger camera than the D7000, but not by much. Compared to the D800, the D600 is noticeably lighter, which will make a difference during a long day's shooting. In theory, the D600 will stand up to the same sort of abuse from wind and weather as the D800, too.
Upgrade, Slaphead?

EDIT - I don't know if it's just me but the price (official RRP) seems very high... £1955.99 and €2385.99? That would be 3000CHF... more expensive than the D800 body on toppreise! http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php?se...n+d800&sRes=OK Must be either a a mistake, or a completely unrealistic RRP which won't reflect real pricing. I predict around 1700-2000chf.

Last edited by Chuff; 13.09.2012 at 08:35.
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Old 13.09.2012, 09:32
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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A FF DSLR for around 2000 chuffs... doesn't seem too bad especially since it is essentially a very similar camera to the D800 barring the slightly downgraded AF system (same or tweaked version of D7000, maybe Slaphead can comment on how good that is)


Upgrade, Slaphead?
Very interesting. However with regards to the direction my photography has moved in full frame can actually be a disadvantage. My 16MP crop D7000 already provides me with more usable resolution than the 24MP FF D600 would for my subject matter. Basically I'd need a D800 to match the results I'm getting from the D7000. For me, at the moment the, D7000 hits the sweet spot as far as Nikon's line up is concerned.

With regards to the focus system, I'll let you be judge of that


DSC_1703 by slap_head, on Flickr

Can't remember the settings used for this one, but it worked. As a test I had this one printed at B0 (1 metre width) and details down to the honeycomb patterns in the eyes are completely sharp.



DSC_2863 by slap_head, on Flickr

This was taken with continuous autofocus with the release priority set to focus. This one has been posted here before. Viewing this at 100% shows that the head and eyes are perfectly in focus.

So IMO the D7000's focus system does a great job, especially considering that focusing at macro distances is very challenging. But the focus system is only half the story, It took me quite a bit of practice and experimentation to get my technique to the level where I could consistently nail the focus on shots such as these.

So if the D600's focus system is a modified (read larger) version of the D7000's then it should be pretty good.

However, virtually all new releases of camera's are not without their problems, and IME it will generally pay to wait at least 3 months, preferably 6 months after the release date before buying. A recent example of this is that a lot of D800's left the factory with a misaligned focus sensor leading to OOF images when focus points on the left side were selected.

So, am I going to buy a D600. Well, probably not. Not because I don't think it offers enough, but purely, as I've already said, full frame is not the best choice for my current work.
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Old 13.09.2012, 09:35
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

Slaphead these pics are fantastic job well done! As for comments on D7000 I can only agree since ai have one also
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Old 13.09.2012, 10:14
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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Very interesting. However with regards to the direction my photography has moved in full frame can actually be a disadvantage. My 16MP crop D7000 already provides me with more usable resolution than the 24MP FF D600 would for my subject matter. Basically I'd need a D800 to match the results I'm getting from the D7000. For me, at the moment the, D7000 hits the sweet spot as far as Nikon's line up is concerned.

With regards to the focus system, I'll let you be judge of that

Can't remember the settings used for this one, but it worked. As a test I had this one printed at B0 (1 metre width) and details down to the honeycomb patterns in the eyes are completely sharp.

This was taken with continuous autofocus with the release priority set to focus. This one has been posted here before. Viewing this at 100% shows that the head and eyes are perfectly in focus.

So IMO the D7000's focus system does a great job, especially considering that focusing at macro distances is very challenging. But the focus system is only half the story, It took me quite a bit of practice and experimentation to get my technique to the level where I could consistently nail the focus on shots such as these.

So if the D600's focus system is a modified (read larger) version of the D7000's then it should be pretty good.

However, virtually all new releases of camera's are not without their problems, and IME it will generally pay to wait at least 3 months, preferably 6 months after the release date before buying. A recent example of this is that a lot of D800's left the factory with a misaligned focus sensor leading to OOF images when focus points on the left side were selected.

So, am I going to buy a D600. Well, probably not. Not because I don't think it offers enough, but purely, as I've already said, full frame is not the best choice for my current work.
Fair comments, and in all truth my level of photography warrants nothing more than a D7000... and you are about 100x better than I am.

The fly headshot during flight is amazing by the way, and if you can nail focus like that each time under such difficult conditions then I am not a little jealous. It's like you got it to pose nice and still just for the shot.

i guess the upside is the D7000 may come down in price or flood the used market as people upgrade to FF... maybe i'll pick one up if I can't find a K-5 body in the near future.
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Old 13.09.2012, 20:37
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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i guess the upside is the D7000 may come down in price or flood the used market as people upgrade to FF... maybe i'll pick one up if I can't find a K-5 body in the near future.
If you're not too heavily invested in to Pentax lenses then I would say go for the D7000. That said, if my memory serves me correctly, you can get a K-5 body new for about a hundred chufs less than a D7000 body, but the D7000 is a fantastic crop DSLR. I'm not just saying that because I own one - if I thought it was crap I'd say so, and would have got rid of it.
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Old 14.09.2012, 10:16
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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If you're not too heavily invested in to Pentax lenses then I would say go for the D7000. That said, if my memory serves me correctly, you can get a K-5 body new for about a hundred chufs less than a D7000 body, but the D7000 is a fantastic crop DSLR. I'm not just saying that because I own one - if I thought it was crap I'd say so, and would have got rid of it.
I know, reviews and user feedback are universally awesome. Only "problem" is I have two nice lenses and a nice flash which i'd lose a fair bit of money on... but I guess it's a long term investment buying into a new system.

One thing I am slightly worried about is the effect of compact mirrorless cameras on the DSLR market... im worried if I buy into a new system that they (mirrorless cams) will get even more awesome over the next year or two, and make carrying a big DSLR semi redundant for anything but pro's. They already have DSLR-esque image quality in a small package, fast live view, though obviously more limited lens ranges.

However, still can't beat the feel of a DSLR in my opinion.
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Old 14.09.2012, 10:55
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

My photography, which is really just a way for me to create snapshots as mememtos, would appreciate a full-frame as I tend to do lots of indoor photography and architecture shots. I'd appreciate the better low-light and wide angle abilities this offers.

I'm just reading about the D600 and it seems to be almost the same size and weight as the Canon 40D I used to own. Which I thought was perfect (for an SLR).

I might be tempted back into SLR ownership again, having previously given up and gone the (good) P&S route due to wanting a pocket camera. It's just a gadget. I'll probably wait, wait, wait, buy one, shoot 1000s of photos, and sell it. As I did with the 40D.

Thing is, after owning it for 1.5 years I managed to get all my money back on the 40D. Camera technology is moving too fast for that to happen again.
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Old 14.09.2012, 11:08
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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My photography, which is really just a way for me to create snapshots as mememtos, would appreciate a full-frame as I tend to do lots of indoor photography and architecture shots. I'd appreciate the better low-light and wide angle abilities this offers.

I'm just reading about the D600 and it seems to be almost the same size and weight as the Canon 40D I used to own. Which I thought was perfect (for an SLR).

I might be tempted back into SLR ownership again, having previously given up and gone the (good) P&S route due to wanting a pocket camera. It's just a gadget. I'll probably wait, wait, wait, buy one, shoot 1000s of photos, and sell it. As I did with the 40D.

Thing is, after owning it for 1.5 years I managed to get all my money back on the 40D. Camera technology is moving too fast for that to happen again.
if i didn't already have SLRs, i probably wouldn't buy one now. too heavy and bulky. i normally shoot only with a 35mm prime lens and so there are plenty of compact offerings for this.
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Old 14.09.2012, 11:33
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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A FF DSLR for around 2000 chuffs... doesn't seem too bad especially since it is essentially a very similar camera to the D800 barring the slightly downgraded AF system (same or tweaked version of D7000, maybe Slaphead can comment on how good that is) and smaller chassis (with a few less controls). FPS is higher at 5.5 vs 4 on the D800 too!
While I really dig the D600, it's definitely not in the same league as the D800. The D800's sensor runs circles around the D600's. Then again, most people don't need or want a 36 megapixel sensor.
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Old 14.09.2012, 11:38
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

It's a case of choosing the right tool for the job in hand.

The reasons for owning a DSLR are becoming less due to the vastly improved quality of the mirrorless (EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens) systems, and the fact that a lot of them are now using DSLR sized crop sensor means that it's now difficult to tell what was shot with DSLR and what was shot with a small EVIL system.

However to do what I do I need the bulk of a DSLR to help keep the camera steady, plus be able to use "specialist" lenses and flashes. A lot of these accessories are simply not available for the compact EVIL systems, or are not as complete and as functional as what's available for a DSLR.

I would say that for the vast majority of people it would make little sense to own a DSLR. Only if your interests lie in the areas where EVIL and compact cameras don't do so well would it make sense.
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Old 14.09.2012, 11:45
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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I would say that for the vast majority of people it would make little sense to own a DSLR. Only if your interests lie in the areas where EVIL and compact cameras don't do so well would it make sense.
I completely agree. I use my D800 to make money. And to be honest, it's never been easier than with the D800. I don't even bother editing my pictures anymore before I submit them to iStock or Alamy - most of it gets accepted as it comes out of the camera. For weddings, I primarily use it in DX Mode - that way I don't have to lug the 70-200mm 2.8 VR II around all day - the 24-70mm x crop works well enough for that, and 16 megapixel images are enough for that particular purpose.

I wouldn't recommend the D800 to sports photographers, but for every other purpose its perfect.
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Old 14.09.2012, 12:52
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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While I really dig the D600, it's definitely not in the same league as the D800. The D800's sensor runs circles around the D600's. Then again, most people don't need or want a 36 megapixel sensor.
I don't think supposed to be in the same 'league' though, it's an entry-level Pro DSLR, and the D800 is pretty much the creme de la creme with upgraded sensor and AF system..

However, for most people it's probably ok because as you say they don't need the extra MP, and the burst FPS is also 25% higher.

With Nikons current pricing though it just doesn't make any sense to buy it, may as well pay the comparatively little extra for the D800.
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Old 14.09.2012, 13:48
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Re: So... what cool stuff do you think will come out of Photokina 2012 this year?

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I don't think supposed to be in the same 'league' though, it's an entry-level Pro DSLR, and the D800 is pretty much the creme de la creme with upgraded sensor and AF system..

However, for most people it's probably ok because as you say they don't need the extra MP, and the burst FPS is also 25% higher.

With Nikons current pricing though it just doesn't make any sense to buy it, may as well pay the comparatively little extra for the D800.
The control layout of the D600 is not in line with the layout from Nikon's pro models, in fact from what I can see it's effectively a full frame D7000 which in my mind puts it at the top of the consumer line.

To be honest though you could argue all day long about what constitutes a pro level DSLR, pretty much any DSLR can be used for pro work these days
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