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  #21  
Old 18.09.2012, 15:47
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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MAC address can easily be faked... they are suppose to identify the hardware network card, but it's definitely not a safe way to ID someone/something.
Anyway there's no way to "identify" someone's mac address as you could do with an IP (well after the provider communicates who had the IP at X time).

I guess your only way to identify who's what is to monitor their network traffic. But that's definitely illegal, actually, even "entering" the open wifi network is a private intrusion, illegal.

It's a Cablecom / UPC SID on a Cablecom router pointing to Cablecom DNS servers in a building serviced by Cablecom. Cablecom know who owns that MAC...It's the same router MAC my power line logs onto... The culprit is my neighbour. The issue here now is Apple WiFi technology floated between SIDS , not updating the Netwok SID list, I.e seamlessly logging me onto another SID without re-authorising. Thats my theory so far, 192.168.0.1 went from one router to another , repeatedly without any user input on my Apple (iPad/iPhone)
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  #22  
Old 18.09.2012, 15:50
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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You nor he don't have your powerline link AES encrypted with unique passwords?



Peek in a window and see who owns a Sony TV?
Powerline is encrypted A-B and B-C, not A-C
It's a technology that trusts it's environment and users within the same electrical ring...my Devolo connects flawlessly to his, no intervention, no WPS... Go figure
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  #23  
Old 18.09.2012, 15:54
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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It's a Cablecom / UPC SID on a Cablecom router pointing to Cablecom DNS servers in a building serviced by Cablecom. Cablecom know who owns that MAC...It's the same router MAC my power line logs onto... The culprit is my neighbour. The issue here now is Apple WiFi technology floated between SIDS , not updating the Netwok SID list, I.e seamlessly logging me onto another SID without re-authorising. Thats my theory so far, 192.168.0.1 went from one router to another , repeatedly without any user input on my Apple (iPad/iPhone)
That's what happens when you use MAC (apple) products....

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  #24  
Old 18.09.2012, 15:55
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Powerline is encrypted A-B and B-C, not A-C
It's a technology that trusts it's environment and users within the same electrical ring...my Devolo connects flawlessly to his, no intervention, no WPS... Go figure
I would say it would be interesting that you email the tech support of that "devolo" device... (instead of cablecom support...<-- what a joke).
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  #25  
Old 18.09.2012, 16:02
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Caution: remember anything connected will have an IP and Mac address...
think the network printer, phones, etc... before to think someone's on your network.
Fing scanner picked up all his hardware , the gateway address was that of a Thomson router with a different MAC to mine... I picked up my Powerline connected hardware on his network...my Powerline has built in WiFi too

Clearly I was on his network, he didn't update his admin password on the router, I logged into his via my iPad thinking I was on my network because the SID never changed from the factory default I checked on the bottom of my router. My Powerline broadcasts my SID over built in Wireless, I connected to this known SID , but the Powerline DHCP'ed via his Powerline and my WiFi connection was actually bridged to his network. A huge security f uck up on the vendor implementation. His Powerline allowed mine to connect unchallenged. This may explain the SID staying the same but the IP network pointing to his LAN
. I unplugged my router but not my WiFi Powerline, out of sight in another room
I think I just solved the case in stream of thought...
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  #26  
Old 18.09.2012, 16:51
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

Just so I got it right: you connected your iPad to your Devolo wifi connection, and the Devolo was actually connected to your neighbors network? Then the problem should be there with your wired Devolo connection as well, yes?

I'm not sure I understand why all connections to the Devolo are not encrypted? Shouldn't they be?
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  #27  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:01
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

so if i get this right, you forgot you had another wifi access point?
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  #28  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:04
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

Devolo thing:

Q. Can the signal be used by houses around me?
A. The meter acts as a natural block to the signal and should not leak past this. Homeplugs will also not cross phases and generally the phases are swapped on houses up the street to balance the load.
If your are in shared accommodation then it would be advised to use the security setting on the plugs to block others joining, this is done by pressing the nmk/security/pair button on the first plug and then within minute pressing it on the other, this will lock them together and not allow others to join, if you add more plugs do the same again to add further units.

Seems something to try to "isolate" your network...
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  #29  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:08
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Devolo thing:

Q. Can the signal be used by houses around me?
A. The meter acts as a natural block to the signal and should not leak past this. Homeplugs will also not cross phases and generally the phases are swapped on houses up the street to balance the load.
If your are in shared accommodation then it would be advised to use the security setting on the plugs to block others joining, this is done by pressing the nmk/security/pair button on the first plug and then within minute pressing it on the other, this will lock them together and not allow others to join, if you add more plugs do the same again to add further units.

Seems something to try to "isolate" your network...
AKA WPS, offered as an easy connect option, yet to see a router that enforced this as the only access method...

Also, he is not on my network, I am on his.
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  #30  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:11
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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AKA WPS, offered as an easy connect option, yet to see a router that enforced this as the only access method...

Also, he is not on my network, I am on his.
No, not at all!!

WPS is the "password" you set on the "gui level".
Here it's talking about "signal isolation" on the "devolo Plug devices".


It's about isolating your electric "plugs" so you can not catch the "plugs" from your neighbour... So by isolating yours, you'll not pick up "his plugs"---


We are talking about this DEVOLO thing, right?

Unless that action actually only does the "WPS" for you? Gosh, what a dumb explanation they made, it's occulting the clear technical bit with cr@p!!
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  #31  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:18
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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No, not at all!!

WPS is the "password" you set on the "gui level".
Here it's talking about "signal isolation" on the "devolo Plug devices".


It's about isolating your electric "plugs" so you can not catch the "plugs" from your neighbour... So by isolating yours, you'll not pick up "his plugs"---


We are talking about this DEVOLO thing, right?

Unless that action actually only does the "WPS" for you? Gosh, what a dumb explanation they made, it's occulting the clear technical bit with cr@p!!
I believe I am on the same ring main as my neighbour, we are in a refurbished penthouse divided into two during renovation.

I have no such options on my Devolo...
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  #32  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:19
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

Isolate your power-plug network so all connections are AES encrypted. If you are connecting to his unencrypted powerplug network, that probably means yours is also not encrypted. It's nothing to do with WPS, that's wifi related, and you don't seem to have a wifi problem.

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For that very reason, the security question remains particularly important for many users with regard to DESpro or AES encryption. devolo recommends the DESpro and AES encryption, which, depending on the standard, is always integrated into the devolo dLANŽ adapters and can be enabled in the software provided by devolo using a password. Thus devolo can guarantee an extremely high degree of data security.



The easiest way to set up a secure network via powerline is to use the dLANŽ 200 AV and 500 AV series – with the "Encryption Button", the adapters provide the highest security along with maximum convenience. As soon as the adapter is plugged into a power outlet, all you have to do to create an encrypted network connection is press the Encryption Button. The network is protected immediately against unauthorised access. For the user, it could not be easier: configuring the adapter does not require any settings on the device, any software or a computer – that's simple!
http://www.devolo.com/consumer/devol...kage.html?l=en
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  #33  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:29
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Isolate your power-plug network so all connections are AES encrypted. If you are connecting to his unencrypted powerplug network, that probably means yours is also not encrypted. It's nothing to do with WPS, that's wifi related, and you don't seem to have a wifi problem.

http://www.devolo.com/consumer/devol...kage.html?l=en
That's what I thought...

Could the OP publish exact version of Devolo devices?

Apparently on some models there's a tiny switch UNDER the plug...

Anyway, with exact version we'll find the manuals in a sec.
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  #34  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:39
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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That's what I thought...

Could the OP publish exact version of Devolo devices?

Apparently on some models there's a tiny switch UNDER the plug...

Anyway, with exact version we'll find the manuals in a sec.
Devolo AV 200 mini (Wireless) off the top of my head. Cockpit software has no options either... Think the unit has power / WPS and radio buttons.
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  #35  
Old 18.09.2012, 17:49
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

This had nothing to do with encryption. That occurs post connection. The issue here is that my neighbours Powerline allowed mine on unchallenged. He may not even have a wireless network , and encryption protects against snooping, not against access.
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  #36  
Old 18.09.2012, 20:36
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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This had nothing to do with encryption. That occurs post connection. The issue here is that my neighbours Powerline allowed mine on unchallenged. He may not even have a wireless network , and encryption protects against snooping, not against access.
The powerline plugs have AES encryption between them to prevent unauthorized access (similar to wifi having WPA), this includes "challenging" of course. However the encryption can be disabled, in which case any powerline plug on the same electric grid can communicate, as it seems is the case between you and your neighbor.

Find the user guide for your specific model to see how to set security. Maybe you have to log in via a webpage (like a router) or maybe just push a button on the bottom (if they came in a paired set).

Here's a basic explanation from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug#Security
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  #37  
Old 18.09.2012, 21:52
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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The powerline plugs have AES encryption between them to prevent unauthorized access (similar to wifi having WPA), this includes "challenging" of course. However the encryption can be disabled, in which case any powerline plug on the same electric grid can communicate, as it seems is the case between you and your neighbor.

Find the user guide for your specific model to see how to set security. Maybe you have to log in via a webpage (like a router) or maybe just push a button on the bottom (if they came in a paired set).

Here's a basic explanation from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HomePlug#Security
You didn't read it did you ?

Encryption occurs after joining the network between the power line units...it does not prevent unauthorised access, so read again, Transmission is encrypted which means that you can still join the network, but unless you can decrypt, you will just see garbage if intercepting. If my neighbour has a Devolo, then it appears to his device that I am on the same powerline network , just in a different room, home ease of use , lack of foresight, or whatever reason means I joined unchallenged, I joined an encrypted network unchallenged, the decryption is built into each device based on factory set key. Think...and think again, You plug in, it pairs up with the master device, you join onto your device and then anything you send is encrypted between the devices. Encryption DOES not stop my device joining the network. You are confusing user session transmission encryption with device authorisation.

As an analogy, your corporate network uses encryption, all over the network between the switches and routers...Did you enter a key to log on at work...no. Because its inter-device encryption with each node decrypting/encrypting without any intervention or input from you.

Get the picture ? Encryption does not prevent network access, it merely scrambles the content. Encryption or no encryption would not stop the two power line nodes pairing up to form the bridge.

Last edited by Upthehatters2008; 18.09.2012 at 22:02.
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  #38  
Old 18.09.2012, 22:52
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Encryption occurs after joining the network between the power line units...it does not prevent unauthorised access
The powerline devices are encrypting Layer 2 (MAC layer), IP Addresses are happening on Layer 3 (DHCP is on Layer 7). How can you join a network on an IP level (Layer 3) if Layer 2 is encrypted with AES? If the 2 powerline devices don't share the same encryption key, they will not acknowledge each other.

...unless you both have the same default password?

Quote:
All data traffic and nearly all control traffic within the AVLN—the exception being a strictly limited set of control messages
that simply cannot be encrypted—is secured by 128-bit AES encryption, providing a high level of security. This encryption
uses the Network Encryption Key (NEK) and is performed on individual segments as the MPDUs are created. The NEK may
be automatically and dynamically changed.
In order to join an AVLN, a station must obtain a Network Membership Key (NMK). If it already possesses an NMK it may
join the network immediately; otherwise is must be provided with the NMK. This provisioning may occur in a variety of
ways, including:
Using the default NMK that is programmed into all AV stations. While this default NMK provides a seamless, plug
and play experience for the user when the equipment is initially installed, it does not provide any privacy since it is
known by every HPAV-certified station.

• The user can define and enter a Network Password (NPW) directly into a new station. This NPW is hashed to create
the NMK, a 128 bit AES encryption key. The user must enter a NPW on at least one station to initially define the
NMK for the AVLN.
http://www.homeplug.org/tech/whitepa...per_050818.pdf
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  #39  
Old 18.09.2012, 23:07
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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The powerline devices are encrypting Layer 2 (MAC layer), IP Addresses are happening on Layer 3 (DHCP is on Layer 7). How can you join a network on an IP level (Layer 3) if Layer 2 is encrypted with AES? If the 2 powerline devices don't share the same encryption key, they will not acknowledge each other.

...unless you both have the same default password?

http://www.homeplug.org/tech/whitepa...per_050818.pdf
Read the article...Plug two new Devolos in on the same ring and they have paired, whether I am using them or not. They have in built factory keys.

Your layer knowledge is deeply flawed. So is your understanding of encryption. You are confusing NEK's with session encryption.
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Old 18.09.2012, 23:45
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Re: A ghost in the Machine - Wifi Interception and masquerading on Cablecom network.

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Read the article...Plug two new Devolos in on the same ring and they have paired, whether I am using them or not. They have in built factory keys.
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The powerline devices are encrypting Layer 2 (MAC layer), IP Addresses are happening on Layer 3 (DHCP is on Layer 7). How can you join a network on an IP level (Layer 3) if Layer 2 is encrypted with AES? If the 2 powerline devices don't share the same encryption key, they will not acknowledge each other.

...unless you both have the same default password?

http://www.homeplug.org/tech/whitepa...per_050818.pdf
probably didn't set a unique key and used the factory key, so that all devices are on the same L2 network sharing the same key.
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