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Old 01.10.2006, 11:00
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Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Are there any options for internet without having a phone or cable tv? Do they do ethernet here in Switzerland? Because we figured the others out and it does not make sense to pay about 140 a month for cable tv, tv tax and internet. or around 80 for a phone and internet. Especially since we don't want a phone or to pay a tv tax. (We have a tv but only for video games/dvds, which I am told you don't need to pay tax for.) So what is a other option or is there one? We mainly want the net to web cam chat with my parents and call with skype.
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:21
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Re: Internet question

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Do they do ethernet here in Switzerland?
Are you confusing ethernet with wireless broadband?

You should be able to get cable internet a lot cheaper than 80. I'm paying 60/month to Cablecom for quite a decent speed.
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:31
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

No, but by the time you count cable fees and tv tax it is much more than that. Right now we don't have cable, which you need for cable internet, so that is 60 for internet, whatever cable costs, and whatever the tv tax is, I am sure they will charge you if they see you have cable.
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:35
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Ethernet is what often comes out of the back of your cable modem or ADSL router. I'm avoiding an explanation of what it is, that's what the wikipedia is for. In Switzerland, no the provider does not deliver a ethernet interface directly into your home. In Japan they do, but not here.

The access has to be carried to your home on something (unless there is a true wireless broadband service which I don't think we have here) - this is the so called "last mile" that everybody fights about.

So you have two choices - the signal comes in over the back of the phone line (ADSL based solutions), or over the cable (Cablecom). Those are your two choices.

If you have ADSL then you will have to pay for the phone line rental - I think it's about 25 francs per month? If you were wanting to save the maximum amount of money then I would recommend going for cable internet. The cheapest package from cablecom is 30 francs, and you don't have to get a phone with it.

The TV tax is a totally separate thing and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whether you have cable or not. If you own a TV, and that TV has a tuner in it capable of receiving signals, you are liable for the tax. We've covered this in great detail on other threads in this section. If you don't want to pay the TV tax then get rid of the TV and use a monitor or projector without a tuner. Technically you'd also have to remove any devices which have a radio from your house or car as well. Yes, it is totally stupid, you won't get any argument from me there.

So the bottom line is internet access doesn't have to cost you a fortune at all. I suggest spending some time on the websites of cablecom and the ADSL providers and informing yourself about the options.
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:36
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

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No, but by the time you count cable fees and tv tax it is much more than that. Right now we don't have cable, which you need for cable internet, so that is 60 for internet, whatever cable costs, and whatever the tv tax is, I am sure they will charge you if they see you have cable.
How many channels do you have on your TV right now? If you have more than a few, then you have cable. Almost every household in Switzerland has TV channels delivered by cable.

Have you called cablecom and discussed your options?

If you have cable and no TV or radio, how can they charge you for TV tax? TV tax is about the *TV*, not the method by which you get your channels (antenna, cable or satellite)
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:44
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

The guy at mediamarkt told me you only have to pay tv tax if you receive a signal, so I blocked the cable acess and only use the tv for video games and dvds.
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Old 01.10.2006, 11:53
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Quote:
The guy at mediamarkt told me you only have to pay tv tax if you receive a signal, so I blocked the cable acess and only use the tv for video games and dvds.
Ok, in your second last to post you said that you don't have cable. Now you say you do - but you blocked it. Which one is it?

How does blocking the cable access stop you from getting the TV signals that are broadcast over the air? You are still liable for TV tax whether you block your cable access or not, despite what the cablecom guy might say. If you really want to confirm the law then talk to Billag, not cablecom. In addition, you are already paying about 20 francs per month in your Nebenkosten (additional costs as part of your rent) for the TV part of your cable access. The fact that you blocked the port will make no difference.

So I think we've established that you do have cable, and unless you rip out the tuner from your TV and get rid of your radios you'll be paying TV tax. So the only thing you have to decide is whether you want internet or not - a difference of 30 francs per month (minimum). You may be spending more than this on dialup access already, especially if you count the cost of your phone rental.
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Old 01.10.2006, 12:09
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

I checked Cablecom, the minimum is not 30, it is 45 CHF per month. You can get one for 10CHF per month but that is a rip off as you will pay per Mb and that WILL turn out very expensive, especially if you Skype.

The 30CHF per month is only if you take digital phone. I have that package, it means I pay 45 for phone and internet together. But otherwise you are stuck with the 45CHF plan and have faster internet but no phone.

So yes, like Mark said, if you already have the cable connection, you do not need a phone line from Swisscom for ADSL, and you could use Cablecom for internet (and/or phone etc.).

But Mark, I heard as well that if you plug the connection, you do not have to pay Billag. In Kanton Bern you can even have an official person come by and plug it professionally. I assume your assumption is that a person can get an aerial himself to get the free channels? Perhaps he should check if Billag have a FAQ on this.
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Old 01.10.2006, 12:22
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Quote:
The 30CHF per month is only if you take digital phone. I have that package, it means I pay 45 for phone and internet together. But otherwise you are stuck with the 45CHF plan and have faster internet but no phone.
Sorry, my bad. Ok, well 45 per month for 3000/300 still isn't that bad!

Quote:
But Mark, I heard as well that if you plug the connection, you do not have to pay Billag. In Kanton Bern you can even have an official person come by and plug it professionally. I assume your assumption is that a person can get an aerial himself to get the free channels?
As I understand it the fact that the signal is broadcast over the air means you have to pay. I was personally told by Billag that if I had a radio in my car then I would be liable - and I don't have a cable connection for a radio in my car Same argument for satellite.

Quote:
Perhaps he should check if Billag have a FAQ on this.
Absolutely correct. If there is any doubt then the only people who can correctly confirm the rules are Billag, not some cablecom guy, or even people on this forum. If Billag arrive and fine someone I doubt they are going to accept the excuse "But the cablecom guy in Media Markt said it would be ok". Billag don't get their money by being nice...
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Old 01.10.2006, 12:35
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

I forgot to add an additional problem if you guys want to avoid the tv and radio fee. As soon as you have internet, you are liable for paying at least radio. If you have a TV tuner in the computer, you pay TV too.

Now, you can only get out of paying radio if you remove Windows Media Player and all similar players. Now I tried this since I have no radios and no car, but I cannot remove Windows Media Player, it keeps coming back.

Has anyone here tried this, or are people like me who want to do this forced to claim we moved to Linux
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Old 01.10.2006, 12:47
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

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Now, you can only get out of paying radio if you remove Windows Media Player and all similar players. Now I tried this since I have no radios and no car, but I cannot remove Windows Media Player, it keeps coming back.
Unbelievable. I think this point really underscores how stupid this is whole TV /Radio licensing thing really is. What if you remove Windows Media Player, but install some other program which can play MP3's, but can also play audio which is streamed? Theoretically that would mean you could if you wanted still get the Swiss radio over the internet.

I have an idea - find the servers for their streams over the internet and add some entries to your host file to kill them. That way you can show that it is impossible (until you reverse those entires) to get the Swiss radio channels over the internet. We are really getting in ridiculous territory now - it could go on like this forever (does your portable MP3 player also have a radio, etc.)
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Old 02.10.2006, 10:17
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

An alternative is the Wifi access from Sunrise. I also believe Swisscom and other mobile providers offer a similar package. Its basically a Wifi PCMCIA card, you pay around about 49.- per month for 2GB I think... I must admit I know very little about the technicalities but you might like to look into that.
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Old 02.10.2006, 10:21
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Lynn - the wifi access from Sunrise is really designed for people on the move. You would have to live within range of a Sunrise hotspot and at 50 per month you could get a "proper" connection from cablecom anyway.
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Old 02.10.2006, 11:30
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Yes I know, but it would be an alternative if someone doesn't want to go with a simple internet connection... I just thought it might be worth a mention
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Old 02.10.2006, 14:23
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

I find this all quite interesting, so much so that I went and checked the cablecom website. Currently they have a 50% reduced charge for the first three months. Add to that the one month free you get if someone recommends you and you are paying half price effectively for 5 months - ie 22.50.

The other interesting thing is that they keep changing the speeds. I joined on a 600Kb/256Kb some years ago and it would appear that I now have 6Mb/600K but until my last bill pay CHF 75. This is not on their price chart so I am wondering if they are about to attempt to force me to pay CHF 95. If they do I will insist on being reduced to the CHF 60 and 4mb/400K abo. This I would guess will bring in their CHF 100 downgrade charge for being reduced to a less performant abo, which I of course will not accept.

I can see another legal case coming...

So Question, anybody else in the same boat?
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Old 02.10.2006, 14:45
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

I had a similar situation in Oz, where they allowed me to downgrade for free from memory. Look at it another way, they are ripping you off now as the 75CHF fee is more than the 60CHF plan which by the looks of it does not give you any real life difference, by which I mean a difference you would notice.

So I would ring and ask, but yes, it would be nice if you knew your legal standpoint before calling. Knowing Cablecom, this situation must be listed in the fine print, have you checked? (Right to downgrade when speed is increased?).

Alternatively, cancel and sign up again, gives you the 60/75 CHF for free for a month...
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Old 02.10.2006, 23:11
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Quote:
So Question, anybody else in the same boat?
Yes - I am in the same boat. We are simply on an in-between plan which is no longer listed. I don't think there will be any move by cablecom to force you up or down. So I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 03.10.2006, 00:07
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

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So I would ring and ask, but yes, it would be nice if you knew your legal standpoint before calling. Knowing Cablecom, this situation must be listed in the fine print, have you checked? (Right to downgrade when speed is increased?).
Well you might have guessed I have checked the fine print. And it is not really in. There is reference to moving you to new service schemes (abonomments) if technology becomes available but not about keeping you on one that does not exist and I agree there would be no real world difference...

Last edited by Richard; 03.10.2006 at 09:58.
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Old 03.10.2006, 07:16
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Quote:
<snip>
So Question, anybody else in the same boat?
I was.

I protested on the Expats list in May that my neighbour who was just starting with Cablecom was getting a better deal than I had after paying CHF75/month since 1999. An employee of CC is on that lists and approached me directly and offered to "downgrade" me from 2000Kbits/s to 3000Kbits/s without their CHF100 fee and reducing my payments to CHF45/month.

Of course newcomers can get this service for CHF22.50/month (for the first three months)...
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Old 23.12.2006, 20:54
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Re: Internet question [internet without phone or TV]

Hi

I read through this thread, without figuring out if my case is already covered or not:
- I use Citycable.ch, a monthly package of 49 (City Prime) + 5 for modem rental + 5 for Wifi http://www.citycable.ch/img/depliant.pdf
- I don't want to have any TV cable nor Radio

Question: Can I ask some administration stuff to remove my TV payment?

Thanks
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