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Old 20.06.2013, 07:18
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anonymous browser TOR

I use MS Windows 7, and the G-Data Internet Total Protection 2014 anti everything software, and I am very satisfied. The Firewall is activated, the license is paid for, software is up to date, so no worries there. I also use my laptop for online banking with Post Finance.

For no particular reason I am thinking of loading the anonymous browser TOR. I read that this software enables anonymous browsing, and I would think this would add another level of security, as then criminals would not be able to see my IP address.

If I download the TOR software, would I notice any functional differences using Yahoo e-mail and Post-Finance online banking? Is there anything better?
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Old 20.06.2013, 08:01
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

I don't have the same level of paranoia so haven't tried Tor.

Why not simply try it?

Out of interest, what are criminals going to do if they find out your IP?

Have you recently had a problem?
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Old 20.06.2013, 08:05
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

The criminals will be more interested in planting someting on your computer so it sends them info about you on a regular basis, your IP address they probably couldnt care about since they get that anyway on your gateway proxy. Are you doing the even more elementary and free option of running windows in general and not admin mode or better still not using a windows OS which is your main vulnerability
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Old 20.06.2013, 08:10
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

I assume you've read their 'warnings'

Are you aware or have considered using your existing browser in a sandbox, like Sandboxie?

Less intrusive.

http://www.sandboxie.com/
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Old 20.06.2013, 08:37
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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I don't have the same level of paranoia so haven't tried Tor. Good for you, I don't have an Ostritch attitude.

Why not simply try it? Easier to ask for EF experience, than to delete shared software

Out of interest, what are criminals going to do if they find out your IP? Maybe plant something & take over the PC?

Have you recently had a problem? No
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The criminals will be more interested in planting someting on your computer so it sends them info about you on a regular basis, your IP address they probably couldnt care about since they get that anyway on your gateway proxy. Are you doing the even more elementary and free option of running windows in general and not admin mode or better still not using a windows OS which is your main vulnerability I use Mozilla Firefox
Thanks for your help!
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Old 20.06.2013, 08:42
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Thanks for your help!
Mozilla is a your browser which I do recommend however it is not the OS if you want a non Microsoft one try Linux
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Old 20.06.2013, 09:11
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

Using TOR does not prevent you from being exposed to malware. All it does it route traffic through the TOR network enabling you to be anonymous to the website you are communicating with and also being able to bypass network provider blocks on sites.

This is useful if you're a) a criminal, or b) your a political activist or journalist in an area where the Internet is locked down and strictly monitored.

Point b is the reason why TOR came into existence, and using it for purposes other than that is effectively removing bandwidth from those who need it.

Speaking of bandwidth you'll find routing through TOR to be quite somewhat slower than using your Internet normally, and depending on what your doing it may be all but unusable.
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Old 20.06.2013, 09:18
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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I use MS Windows 7, and the G-Data Internet Total Protection 2014 anti everything software, and I am very satisfied. The Firewall is activated, the license is paid for, software is up to date, so no worries there. I also use my laptop for online banking with Post Finance.

For no particular reason I am thinking of loading the anonymous browser TOR. I read that this software enables anonymous browsing, and I would think this would add another level of security, as then criminals would not be able to see my IP address.

If I download the TOR software, would I notice any functional differences using Yahoo e-mail and Post-Finance online banking? Is there anything better?
There is no security by hiding your IP from a website - with TOR, you're simply changing who knows your IP address because someone has to know it.

Would you prefer EF to know where to send the pages you want to view or would you prefer some random TOR exit node to know it?

What you want for some extra security is to use a browser that supports HTTPS Everywhere and to use something like LastPass browser plugin so that you NEVER enter your password for a site again (it helps against phishing).

Criminals will always be able to see your IP address, by the way. And malicious website content still does not care where you are or if it knows your IP address to infect you.

If you're really paranoid, you can use ScriptSafe or NoScript to limit what scripts run when you visit a website - but if you're asking questions like this, you'll soon become fed up with your very changed surfing experience and you'll disable it.

Finally, for your privacy, you might want to use a cookie manager. I used Vanilla for Chrome which munches up temporary cookies (that I've not whitelisted) every 30 minutes. This even kills EF cookes lol
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Old 20.06.2013, 10:50
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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I use MS Windows 7, and the G-Data Internet Total Protection 2014 anti everything software, and I am very satisfied. The Firewall is activated, the license is paid for, software is up to date, so no worries there. I also use my laptop for online banking with Post Finance.

For no particular reason I am thinking of loading the anonymous browser TOR. I read that this software enables anonymous browsing, and I would think this would add another level of security, as then criminals would not be able to see my IP address.

If I download the TOR software, would I notice any functional differences using Yahoo e-mail and Post-Finance online banking? Is there anything better?
There are many reasons not to use TOR for casual browsing like this. It's not intended for general surfers really. Everything is likely to be slower, some sites might not work at all.. Your bank for example might want to know your actual IP address and give you cookies, they might block TOR exit nodes. (i don't know specifically but some sites do).

Also you have no idea who is running the exit nodes or any of the bits in between over which your data is flowing.. They could be run by the CIA, by criminals sniffing the data or by a 12 year old in his bedroom.. You could be getting right into a great movie, just ready for the action shot and boom, the 12 year old's mum turns off the computer. Yeah it'll re-route but it spoiled the moment

Since nobody else said it yet -- Just get a mac and configure it properly
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:05
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Since nobody else said it yet -- Just get a mac and configure it properly
There's a reason nobody else said it
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:16
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

Is there anything wrong with using it just for browsing and watching clips? It would be nice to watch some video clips that are blocked because of my location. No, nothing scandalous, just TV shows I like that I can't get here. But if it's horribly slow, maybe not worth it?
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:20
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Is there anything wrong with using it just for browsing and watching clips? It would be nice to watch some video clips that are blocked because of my location. No, nothing scandalous, just TV shows I like that I can't get here. But if it's horribly slow, maybe not worth it?
A VPN would be better.
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:30
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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If I download the TOR software, would I notice any functional differences using Yahoo e-mail and Post-Finance online banking? Is there anything better?
Never ever do that. Not only for banking, but for any other browsing which reveals your personal data.
Anything you send through a proxy can be intercepted. Passwords, logins, anything.

Even worse, a proxy node could send you a prepared "copy" of you online banking, but any transfers you make would be directed to criminal accounts. These things are happening all the time.
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:36
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Is there anything wrong with using it just for browsing and watching clips? It would be nice to watch some video clips that are blocked because of my location. No, nothing scandalous, just TV shows I like that I can't get here. But if it's horribly slow, maybe not worth it?
Yes, because that is not what the TOR network is there for. It was never intended as a means to watch geo blocked clips of cats. There are plenty of VPN and/or proxy services both paid for and free which would accomplish this better than TOR.
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Old 20.06.2013, 11:46
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Never ever do that. Not only for banking, but for any other browsing which reveals your personal data.
Anything you send through a proxy can be intercepted. Passwords, logins, anything.

Even worse, a proxy node could send you a prepared "copy" of you online banking, but any transfers you make would be directed to criminal accounts. These things are happening all the time.
Evidence?
Indeed using TOR may make a Man-in-the-Middle attack more possible but it's slightly more complicated that that to carry out an attack.

But it will be dreadfully slow and does not add any security if you're just browsing. As mentioned, a VPN service might suit you more.

If you want to test how good your bank is at SSL, visit www.ssllabs.com and see what Qualys thinks of their implementation.
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Old 20.06.2013, 12:02
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Yes, because that is not what the TOR network is there for. It was never intended as a means to watch geo blocked clips of cats. There are plenty of VPN and/or proxy services both paid for and free which would accomplish this better than TOR.
how did you know I was trying to watch cat clips??
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Old 20.06.2013, 22:11
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

Even if you're using the TOR browser, it won't be much use if someone has covertly installed a Key Logger on your computer.

Coincidentally, one of the chief guys behind the TOR project was at the Uni of Lausanne giving a talk about TOR just last week.
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Old 21.06.2013, 09:46
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Evidence?
Quite sure you've received many emails from many banks linking to many different websites which look like the real thing. Paypal in particular,

There's no easier way to trick someone than simply reroute their connection, so even if they think they are accessing a correct address (because that's what shows in the browser bar), they are not.

Most of these attacks are pretty dumb, but it's not very complicated to make this in a more sophisticated way and there were cases of this.

Sophisticated meaning that you actually do log in to YOUR bank, answer real prompts for passwords from YOUR bank, codes and pins, make real operations, but what is actually submitted is modified ("injected") at the proxy level. The confirmations can be modified as well, to make you think that the transfer went where it was supposed to. Pretty simple to program really.

UBS has a good solution against this - when making a new transfer, it generates a code which contains a part of the account number to which the transfer will be directed, so you cannot inject a different one as the confirmation code wont work. Do you think they would do this if there weren't cases of these kinds of exploits?

But Postfinance? Once you're in, you're in and you can do any transfers without any further prompts. Most online banking systems are similar.
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Old 21.06.2013, 09:51
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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Quite sure you've received many emails from many banks linking to many different websites which look like the real thing. Paypal in particular,

There's no easier way to trick someone than simply reroute their connection, so even if they think they are accessing a correct address (because that's what shows in the browser bar), they are not.

Most of these attacks are pretty dumb, but it's not very complicated to make this in a more sophisticated way and there were cases of this.

Sophisticated meaning that you actually do log in to YOUR bank, answer real prompts for passwords from YOUR bank, codes and pins, make real operations, but what is actually submitted is modified ("injected") at the proxy level. The confirmations can be modified as well, to make you think that the transfer went where it was supposed to. Pretty simple to program really.

UBS has a good solution against this - when making a new transfer, it generates a code which contains a part of the account number to which the transfer will be directed, so you cannot inject a different one as the confirmation code wont work. Do you think they would do this if there weren't cases of these kinds of exploits?

But Postfinance? Once you're in, you're in and you can do any transfers without any further prompts. Most online banking systems are similar.
But this can happen without TOR and is actually easier without TOR.

Don't confuse phishing with MitM attacks. MitM is very hard to do, phishing has endless volumes of victims almost queuing up.

Yes, the UBS challenge when transferring to a new account is to use their challenge/response method to authenticate the first transfer to that account but, in the end, PF can counter that with the suggestion that using your single card to create the second factor at login means that you'd detect the loss or theft of that card more quickly than your UBS card

Best advice EVER is to click the LOGOUT button when finishing your session. VERY IMPORTANT!!!
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Old 21.06.2013, 09:59
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Re: anonymous browser TOR

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But this can happen without TOR and is actually easier without TOR.

Don't confuse phishing with MitM attacks. MitM is very hard to do, phishing has endless volumes of victims almost queuing up.
I'm not confusing anything and I think I made it pretty clear where's the difference between the dumb ones (phishing) and MitM. The second one IMO is easier to do with proxies (but of course more difficult overall). You don't even need to access the victims client or router in order to prepare it. Victims voluntarily open the back door by using random proxies they know nothing about.
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