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Old 03.04.2014, 21:37
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New Orange Billing!

Hi All,

I am somewhat confused and maybe someone "in the know" can explain to me what is going on with the new billing from orange, tried to do the math but it does not add up!

A week ago, I got a letter from orange explain that my next bill will be larger then usual as they are changing their billing to be pro rata, I thought fair enough, if they change the billing date and I would get a 2 more days (32 days instead of 30) on my service the bill should reflect that. Here is what the email stated!

Monatliche Grundgebühr pro rata 6. Feb. – 9. Feb. +
Monatliche Grundgebühr 10. Feb. – 9. März = 32 Tage statt 30 Tage

Now yesterday I actually got the invoice and the bill which is normally 65CHF became 74.30CHF. Statement in bill:

- Rechnungszeitraum: 06.02.2014 - 09.03.2014
- Zahlbar bis: 22.04.2014
- Gesamtbetrag: CHF74,30

That is an added 14.3% which somehow does not correspond with the extra 2 days stated in the original email (2 days should be ~6.7% extra). The way I look at it 30days @ 65 so 32days should be at 69.3CHF.

Does anyone know any better?

p.s. the orange forum is full of people having similar discussion as the one above and before any one suggests, I already spend 1 hour on the phone today with orange helpline just waiting and could not even get through, so I guess I am not the only one with the issue!

Thanks in advance for anyone that could clarify the situation.
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Old 03.04.2014, 21:53
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Re: New Orange Billing!

Well I think ours is right - went up from 29.90 to 32.05, but I really don't know. What annoyed me was the fact that the bill didn't arrive as usual in March and so I sent them an e-mail asking for the amount and a reference number so I could make payment by the 28th. Standard we'll get back to you reply and then absolutely nothing. Finally on Monday last both letter and bill arrived in the post. Well done Orange for telling your customers so early that you were making changes to the billing. That letter should have gone out with the February bills, not on the 24th March which was the date on mine.
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Old 03.04.2014, 22:32
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Re: New Orange Billing!

It's actually 32 days instead of 28 (the normal number of days in this particular billing cycle in a non-leap year), not 32 instead of 30.

Four extra days over 28 makes... you guessed it, 14.3%.

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Old 03.04.2014, 22:48
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Re: New Orange Billing!

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It's actually 32 days instead of 28 (the normal number of days in this particular billing cycle in a non-leap year), not 32 instead of 30.

Four extra days over 28 makes... you guessed it, 14.3%.

OK, I thought of that also and discounted it for 2 reasons, 1) Orange in their original letter mentioned 30 vs 32 days, why not 28 vs 32 days 2)it made me angry because it means that orange chose the month of Feb to do the change intentionally so they can charge people the 2 extra days and have the "excuse for it"

Can you imagine the 2 extra days of billing they are charging all their 1.6 million customers!
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Old 03.04.2014, 23:00
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Re: New Orange Billing!

It looks like a complete disaster. I'm on a discounted Orange Me tariff. Normally, they show the standard rate and then apply the discount to bring it down to the correct rate but that hasn't happened this month. I see from the forums I am not the only one affected.
Also, I went over my 1GB data rate on the 'extra' days and have been billed for that which doesn't seem correct.
The online account section also appears to have been having major problems for the last few weeks. Anyone know who handles their IT? I don't think it is done in-house.
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Old 03.04.2014, 23:09
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Re: New Orange Billing!

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OK, I thought of that also and discounted it for 2 reasons, 1) Orange in their original letter mentioned 30 vs 32 days, why not 28 vs 32 days 2)it made me angry because it means that orange chose the month of Feb to do the change intentionally so they can charge people the 2 extra days and have the "excuse for it"

Can you imagine the 2 extra days of billing they are charging all their 1.6 million customers!
1) They gave you the dates though, in that same letter. Add 'em up, it's 28 + 4 not 30 + 4.

It's clear. Nothing else makes sense. You can keep trying to ring Orange if you want but they'll have pretty much word for word the same thing to say when you do get through.

2), can't help you there.
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Old 03.04.2014, 23:52
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Re: New Orange Billing!

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1) They gave you the dates though, in that same letter. Add 'em up, it's 28 + 4 not 30 + 4.
Humm, you know, I am not sure, you see I was already billed for the first few days in Feb. (up to the 5th to be exact) have a look at the full part of the email with the dates and days. Also, it is not 30 + 4 but 30 + 2 days what they mention in the letter.

Februar

März


Monatliche Grundgebühr pro rata 6. Feb. – 9. Feb. +


Monatliche Grundgebühr 10. Feb. – 9. März = 32 Tage statt 30 Tage

Having said that, I do tend to agree with you as the 28 + 4 days explanation is the most logical!
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Old 07.04.2014, 16:31
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Re: New Orange Billing!

I still haven't received my bill at all (mistaken or not mistaken)!
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Old 07.04.2014, 16:55
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Re: New Orange Billing!

Well work this one out MathNut. My letter says "The bill covers the period 8th Feb to 9th March, which is longer than a normal billing period (30 days), so the amount will be greater than usual."

It then says further down:

charge 8 Feb - 9 Feb +
monthly charge 10 Feb - 9 Mar = 30 days

FYI my previous billing dates were from 8th Jan to 7th Feb which I make is 31 days! Yet I was charged 32.05 instead of my normal 29.90. So am I being charged more for less days?
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Old 14.05.2014, 16:06
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Re: New Orange Billing!

Hi,

It is quite simple. There are the following ways to calculate a daily pro-rata:

1) divide the monthly subscription amount to days in February (28 days)
2) divide the monthly subscription amount to 31 days month
3) divide the monthly subscription amount to 30 days month
4) take the annual subscription fee (monthly * 12) and divide it to 365 days

Obviously, the highest rate will come out if you choose February.

Let's now take the example of "we_da_man" of a subscription worth CHF 65/month

Option 1: 65 / 28 = CHF 2.321 per day pro-rata
Option 2: 65 / 31 = CHF 2.096 per day pro-rata
Option 3: 65 / 30 = CHF 2.166 per day pro-rata
Option 4: 65 * 12 / 365 = CHF 2.136 per day pro-rata

Therefore, they magically decided without no explicit reason to change the bill period exactly in February and calculate the highest daily pro-rata.

So, 4 extra days in February * 2.321 = 9.284 + 65 = CHF 74.28.

So far, so good, seems "correct". Also, I am not sure there is a specific law to address against the fact they decided to use the highest rate out of the 4 options. The most obvious one to have been used is the yearly average, which in turn would have produced:

4 extra days in February * 2.136 = 8.544 + 65 = 73.54.

There is a "small" difference of 0.74 rp, but multiply that with 1.5 Mio subscribers and you get roughly CHF 1'110'000 CHF extra revenue for Orange. Ok the number can be slightly different, but you got the idea.

One will think what can be done to call justice upon the way they decided to pick up the month and the daily pro-rata.

However, there is something more which is not easy to see. Everyone might think Orange is entitled to pick up whatever method they want out of the 4, HOWEVER:

1. They could chose 6,7,8,9 as separate days in February (at the highest rate) + 10.02 - 09.03 monthly subscription, AS WELL AS they could chose 06.02 - 05.03 monthly subscription + 6,7,8,9 as separate days in March (at the lowest rate). And here is were I will ask in writing to Orange to change my billing period using THE SECOND OPTION, since is as valid as the first one (business wise as well as technical wise) and it is in my advantage, financially speaking.

2. If they will not agree with the change of the bill, then according to their Terms and Conditions (See Section 12, http://www.orange.ch/en/binary/docs/...tions_en.pdf):

"If you do not agree to essential changes to the Contract that are to your disadvantage you are entitled to terminate the Contract in writing within 30 days of receiving the notification."

Therefore, I will ask for Contract Termination. As easy as that. The problem is that very few people will get it and ask for the money back, and they will remain with most of the dirty profit.

Add that to profit made by adding CHF 2/month to paper bills in the middle of contracts (assume 30% of the 1.5 Mio subscribers where not switching to e-bill * 2 CHF = potential of CHF 1 Mio/month additional revenue).

Add that to charging the internet usage for people in this overlapping days as pointed by someone above (assume you had 1Gb of free internet per month, they did not change that to 1 Gb + 142 Mb for the additional 4 days), add that to the free minutes you have, they did not increased the free minutes with a pro-rata, add that to the issues they had with their system and the fact that they charge weird internet usage (we had an incorrect amount of internet moved to the first day of the next bill) and you will get a picture of the ways to make money in our days.

Well, be it onto them, according to what they do.
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