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Old 10.04.2007, 13:16
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[Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

Following on from this thread Mark put together (Dummies/Satellite), I'm happy to say that he and I have colluded on another project - Going Motorised.

The basic setup is similar to the Dummies' guide....I'll try to point out the things to note:
  • your dish needs to be mounted on a pole that's perfectly vertical. Perfectly being the key word here.
  • default position you should align your motor (and dish) with its ZERO on is magnetic south. You also need to tell your receiver that you're at 8e (and about 47n) so that it can calculate itself where to point. You deffo need a COMPASS.
  • in theory if you get your motor/dish at south then things might work. You need to tell your receiver that a motor is attached and to move to locations for satellites....
That is the theory; both Mark and I had some funny results so I'll lay them out here:
  • the motor did not move at all/as expected!
  • having a signal meter is a good idea ()
  • disabling gotoX (ie. USALS) and storing locations seems to have worked (for me)
  • walking your dish to a location you see for a certain satellite and storing it seems more reliable
  • when walking it step-by-step, you see Bit Error Rates drop when you get to your "destination" - consider walking through the main beam a little (as I missed some 28e channels by being satisfied too quickly!)
  • PC Systems don't typically deliver enough power to drive a motor (shame that)
  • different receivers seem to get different behaviour ()
I am proud to say I have now 28/23/19/16/13/7 east stored in my Dreambox. It's been painstaking and I've changed how I will set things up for now but it's quite rewarding.

I'll pop up some pictures of my creation in the next few days too.

Anyone else been through the same experience - or considering it?
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Old 11.04.2007, 10:41
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Re: [Satellite] Going Motorised - another work-in-progress

some pictures; note the use of self-amalgamating tape not electrician's tape!!
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satellite-multi-sat-motorised-complicated-setups-img_0409.jpg   satellite-multi-sat-motorised-complicated-setups-img_0408.jpg   satellite-multi-sat-motorised-complicated-setups-img_0407.jpg   satellite-multi-sat-motorised-complicated-setups-img_0406.jpg  
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Old 24.06.2007, 13:31
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Re: [Satellite] Going Motorised - another work-in-progress

an update because I have a transparent dish now in place:
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Old 25.06.2007, 15:05
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Re: [Satellite] Going Motorised - another work-in-progress

As additional info to Lob's interesting post, there's an alternative for those of us who for whatever reason can't install a motorised system of their own.

We just moved into a new apartment in a newly built block. Relationships with the Architect are very good, and we shared the views of most purchasers and the architect that we didn't want the outside of the building plastered with Sat dishes. But of course there were a few akward b*ggers like me that wanted programs not available from Cablecom/Bluewin (i.e. Sky).

The description of the technical solution probably warrants a thread of its own, which I'll gladly start if there's interest, but briefly one erects a good-quality dish in as unobtrusive a place as possible. Ours is on the flat roof hidden behind the lift motor and sprayed to match. On the dish, you need a quad-out LNB for each satellite you wish anyone to be able to view, in our case we had 28/23/19/13 degrees. So that needed four LNB's each with 4 outputs (16 feed cables) that then go to a "multiswitch box". This box has (obviously) 16 inputs, the number of outputs depends on how many people/sat receivers are to be connected - we opted for 16, leaving a few spare.

From each multiswitch output a single cable runs to each Sat receiver. In our case, the cable runs were very long so VERY expensive cable was needed - in fact the cabling was the dearest bit. 16 feed cables were dropped 5 stories down the lift shaft in the middle of the block to the cellar. From there, the receiver cables fanned out (and up again!) to each Sat receiver.

The multiswitch accepts electronic commands (DiSeq) from each Sat receiver that instruct the multiswitch to connect the output to one of the 16 inputs, i.e. a particular range of transponders on a particular Satellite. This switching is independant, i.e. if your receiver switches, your neighbour's output remains untouched. This is in complete contrast to Lob's solution, which is a strictly single receiver, multi Satellite solution.

A solution like this would be hard to DIY and is vastly dearer than Lob's, but is a good shared solution under certain circumstances.

Richard S
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Old 25.06.2007, 15:09
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Re: [Satellite] Going Motorised - another work-in-progress

Richard - also you need to comment that I believe this will not work with a Sky box? Effectively you are taking feeds for H/V rather than switching on the LNB. And your LNBs are "quattro" not "quad".
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Old 25.06.2007, 19:13
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Re: [Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

Hi,

Not so. I have my Sky+ box connected to 2 feeds from this installation and use it a lot. The only point to watch is that no Sky box knows anything about DiSeq! So I arranged the whole installation such that SiSeq "A" (i.e. no DiSeq signal at all) switches to 28 degrees. Fortunately all the neighbors are using more intelligent boxes (i.e. Dreambox and various Premier boxes) thatt ARE DiSeq capable. They just set their boxes send DiSeq "B" for 23, DiSeq "C" for 19 and "D" for 13 degrees. It all works like a charm!

But you're right about "Quattro".

I'm still trying to decide what to attach to the third feed cable I have. A Dreambox sounds nice, but I'm also quite interested in putting a HD Sat receive card in a Windows Vista Ultimate MCE system. But it means upgrading my present MCE PC, my SD projector, etc., etc.

Richard S
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Old 26.06.2007, 10:36
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Re: [Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

A Skybox actually just takes the A/A feed by default IIRC. I've testing this with a monoblock. But they're crap boxes (actually of course great for a "normal" consumer).

For a HD PC, I recommend E6400 Core 2 Duo or better CPU. I have just installed one of those with Vista and a Technotrend HD card and DragonCAM (for FTA card/ART card/other). It's corking (720p projector).

You might want to wait for the DM8000 which could be coming "soon".
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Old 27.06.2007, 20:05
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Re: [Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

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... I have just installed one of those with Vista and a Technotrend HD card and DragonCAM (for FTA card/ART card/other)...
Are you using the MCE part of Vista with your PC or other PVR software? If so, what do you do to get the EPG?

Richard S
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Old 28.06.2007, 10:00
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Re: [Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

I have DVB-T which works with Vista MC
I have DVBViewer for the satellite side - it has EPG plugins IIRC but I've not used them. Bargain for €15 tho'
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Old 12.07.2007, 10:33
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Re: [Satellite] Solutions which are more "technical"

is there much good stuff on those other satellites? any good movie channels/sports coverage etc?

How many extra channels have you pulled in?
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Old 02.01.2008, 15:49
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Satellite Digital HDTV Motorised

Hello,

I have a HDTV and am now looking around for content. I can get some over Cablecom digital (not much), but it's also available over Satellite (Sky and Swiss TV + others). Euro 2008 will be in high definition on Swiss TV so it should be good. BBC HDTV is meant to be the real thing and that's free to air.

Now I've just seen that you can get Satellite dishses that lock on to different Satellites. There appear to be different ways to do this, either with a motorised Satellite dish or multiple LNBs.

So the question is does anyone have any knowledge about this, or if not does anyone know of how to find out?

I've done plenty of surfing without much luck.

Thanks a lot
Paul
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Old 02.01.2008, 15:57
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Re: Satellite Digital HDTV Motorised

http://www.lyngsat.com/hd/
this will give you all content available. Not much is free right now.

You cannot motorise a solution for Sky UK.
There are some HD receivers out there.
Premiere also is available in HD through www.teleclub.ch - Suisse HD available with a card from www.sataccess.ch

Again, penetration is not that great ..... yet.
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Old 02.01.2008, 16:04
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Re: Satellite Digital HDTV Motorised

Thanks for the quick response.

A couple of questions in response to your answer:

Why is sky not available on a motorised solution?, I only want the free to air channels.

Where do you get your information about systems from? Is it just from the internet?

I like the look of Teleclub, but find it expensive at 40CHF a month, when I'd have to pay another 9chf to get at the sport or movie content.
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Old 02.01.2008, 16:54
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Re: Satellite Digital HDTV Motorised

There is one UK FTA channel - BBC HD. C4 has HD too but you need a card for it.

Right now, I watch 2 HD channels - Premiere HD and BBC HD. And not so often.

There are a few HD receivers out there. Have a look at the free channels you can get and the programming available and post back what you think you need with regards to channels.

I think you might be happier with a cheap and cheerful FTA system connected to a multi-LNB setup. You'll then get the bug and expand or decide you have enough and enjoy that.

What languages can you watch TV in and still enjoy it?
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Old 02.01.2008, 18:40
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Re: Satellite Digital HDTV Motorised

Thanks, that's the difficult question. I have 3 choices of provider if you like:

Internet, Cable, Satellite.

I know that the internet is eventually going to be a source for all content, but the question is when !!

Cable and Satellite both require subscription to packages for 12 months minimum and it's a bit expensive just to try and see.

But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
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Old 01.04.2008, 14:27
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[Satellite] Multi-sat, motorised, complicated setups

Hello Everyone

I am building a house now in Zurich and was thinking about wiring it for SAT. However, I am confused about a few things and now question if it is worth it. I spoke to a Hi-Fi store who also sells Sat dishes and he claimed it is not all it is cracked up to be. I hope you all can help explain a few things and set me in the right direction

1. I heard you cannot receive many good English speaking programs from SAT here in Switzerland. Either they satellite is not positioned for Swiss to receive it or there are not many good English programs that are free to receive. What do you say to this?

2. The whole system of decoding the signals from Pay TV Satellite will be changed in the next few months so it does not make sense to buy anything yet. Is this true?

3. There is very limited available HDTV content on SAT and you need a subscription for each channel. Whereas, with Cablecom you can get several channels with one subscription. Fact or Fiction?

4. I am keen to see some BBC channels, National Geographic HD, Discovery Channel HD, Animal Planet HD, Canal (french tv), Suisse HD, and the typical Swiss, Austrian and German channels. Can all these be acquired from SAT and what SATs would I have to be able to receive?

5. What subscriptions would be needed and how much would I be paying each month to get that selection of programs? Does Cablecom turn out to be better than SAT if I am not interested in Turkish, Eastern European TV or Arabic TV?
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Old 01.04.2008, 14:34
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Re: Need Help with TV / SAT

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Hello Everyone

I am building a house now in Zurich and was thinking about wiring it for SAT. However, I am confused about a few things and now question if it is worth it. I spoke to a Hi-Fi store who also sells Sat dishes and he claimed it is not all it is cracked up to be. I hope you all can help explain a few things and set me in the right direction

1. I heard you cannot receive many good English speaking programs from SAT here in Switzerland. Either they satellite is not positioned for Swiss to receive it or there are not many good English programs that are free to receive. What do you say to this?
Wrong.

Quote:
2. The whole system of decoding the signals from Pay TV Satellite will be changed in the next few months so it does not make sense to buy anything yet. Is this true?
Wrong. Maybe right when you're talking about Nagravision 2 which is cracked wide open and gives many people Premiere and Cablecom Digital cable but....wrong to generalise

Quote:
3. There is very limited available HDTV content on SAT and you need a subscription for each channel. Whereas, with Cablecom you can get several channels with one subscription. Fact or Fiction?
50% right. There are some FTA HD channels out there (BBC HD, C4HD (which is FTV) and with the Freesat platform, it is likely to become more. And if you must pay for HD over SD, it's a choice for you not him.

Quote:
4. I am keen to see some BBC channels, National Geographic HD, Discovery Channel HD, Animal Planet HD, Canal (french tv), Suisse HD, and the typical Swiss, Austrian and German channels. Can all these be acquired from SAT and what SATs would I have to be able to receive?
You'll need a multi-sat setup and you might find some of these you cannot get. I'd recommend SkyHD and then another "proper" satellite box for the other channels.

Quote:
5. What subscriptions would be needed and how much would I be paying each month to get that selection of programs? Does Cablecom turn out to be better than SAT if I am not interested in Turkish, Eastern European TV or Arabic TV?
Satellite will give you freedom. You could pay from zero with a few channels to several hundred francs and have lots of HD content.


Let's reverse everything. What do you really want to watch - list it in priority....and then state your budget for installation and budget per month
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Old 02.04.2008, 11:06
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Re: [Satellite] Going Motorised - another work-in-progress

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Richard - also you need to comment that I believe this will not work with a Sky box? Effectively you are taking feeds for H/V rather than switching on the LNB. And your LNBs are "quattro" not "quad".
Yes this has to be done with Quattro LNB's.

Yes this should work with a Sky Box. The trick is to connect the LNB at 28 degrees to the first LNB input. By default the output is from the first LNB if no 'DiSEq' control signal is received.
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Old 02.04.2008, 11:56
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Re: [Satellite] Multi-sat, motorised, complicated setups

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Hello Everyone

I am building a house now in Zurich and was thinking about wiring it for SAT. However, I am confused about a few things and now question if it is worth it. I spoke to a Hi-Fi store who also sells Sat dishes and he claimed it is not all it is cracked up to be. I hope you all can help explain a few things and set me in the right direction

1. I heard you cannot receive many good English speaking programs from SAT here in Switzerland. Either they satellite is not positioned for Swiss to receive it or there are not many good English programs that are free to receive. What do you say to this?

2. The whole system of decoding the signals from Pay TV Satellite will be changed in the next few months so it does not make sense to buy anything yet. Is this true?

3. There is very limited available HDTV content on SAT and you need a subscription for each channel. Whereas, with Cablecom you can get several channels with one subscription. Fact or Fiction?

4. I am keen to see some BBC channels, National Geographic HD, Discovery Channel HD, Animal Planet HD, Canal (french tv), Suisse HD, and the typical Swiss, Austrian and German channels. Can all these be acquired from SAT and what SATs would I have to be able to receive?

5. What subscriptions would be needed and how much would I be paying each month to get that selection of programs? Does Cablecom turn out to be better than SAT if I am not interested in Turkish, Eastern European TV or Arabic TV?
There are plenty of English programmes. The main ones will be on SKY (Astra 2 - 28.2 degrees). I would recommend a 'Fixed' dish at least for SKY+ (you can only point the dish at one Satellite at a time, so you could miss a recording if the dish is not in the correct position, also the Sky box likes to receive updates etc.. via satellite).

For additional channels, Hotbird (13 degrees) and Astra 1 (19.8 degrees).

You'll find some channel listing here:

http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skycom/home
http://www.aurora.se/hotbird_satellite_channels.htm
http://www.satmania.com/eng/satchannels
http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/channels.html
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/channels.htm

The MOST flexible setup would be to have Quattro LNB's enbling you to have multiple Satellite feeds to multiple recievers/tuners (this will need a Swithc to be instaleld as well). This is not the cheapest setup though.

A lower costs solution would be to have Sky+ and a second single tuner Satellite box. You could then have a Quad LNB for SKY, and single outputs for 13 & 19 degrees. 2 feeds from the Quad go to SKY, one to a DiQEq multiplexer along with the feeds from the other 2 LNB's.

Note that SKY will have the weakest signal and this needs to be taken into consideration when deciding on size of dish and setup.

Take a look here for some more info:

http://www.satellitesuperstore.co.uk/3satmenu.htm
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Old 22.09.2009, 13:19
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Re: [Satellite] Multi-sat, motorised, complicated setups

Hi all,

I am a complete noob when it comes to satellite related stuff. However, the bug has has got me now. I have been reading this and some other websites over the past few days, and I think I am ready to take the plunge.

Here is the setup I am planning to go for:

Dish: A Wave Toroidal T55, which can accomodate upto 8 LNBs (I plan to start with four, pointing to Eurobird 9E, Hotbird 13E, Astra 28.2 and one more).
LNBs: I am planning to get 4 twin or quad LNBs, haven't decided which ones yet (Any recommendations are welcome)
DiSEqC switch: 2 4X1 switches
Receiver: I plan to get one which is HD capable (DVB-S2) with twin tuners and a PVR for recording stuff. I am leaning towards the QBOX HD but willing to look at other alternatives (the Dreambox 8000 is too expensive)

I'd really appreciate if the experts out there (Lob, hope you are listening ) can share some advice and recommendations.

I plan to set it up myself, but as the toroidal can be a little tricky, any cost-effective installation expert in Geneva would also be a great help.

Thanks,
MadMonk
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