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Old 04.09.2014, 18:58
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Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

Before certain characters start squawking about libel and being sued, everything I'm writing is true and I have documentation to back it up. Short version of the story, I can't recommend ever checking that box for insurance with an Orange package.

I tend to swap my sim card to several different phones, for a variety of reasons. I had loaded my Z2 in the morning and in the late afternoon my bird flung it off a banister, phone met edge of hardwood step, LCD is no more.
  • AIG says they won't cover it, because the Orange network says I was using a different phone at the time, in spite of the fact that the phone had been in use for hours, using SMS and data.
  • I provided pulled logs from the Z2 and screenshots from the receiving device to demonstrate that the Z2 was in fact in use and happily using their network. SMS records and IMEI clearly show that the device was on and sending, the receiving phone shows the sending phone number to tie to the SIM. I can't find a method to pull actual network registrations, but if anyone knows?
  • No go, they say they have to use the Orange logs (something that's in no way indicated in the terms and conditions)
  • I talk to Orange to see about getting a better log or at least to have them confirm that it was in use, they just keep asking AIG who has come back with some amazing claims. They say that:
  • My Z2 isn't covered because a previous device had been used the same day (nothing about this in the terms and conditions)
  • That I actually called the day before the claim, so they find it suspicious that I was able to send sms messages the next day (I have call records that clearly show the date and time of calls to them)
So I've had it. I've sent them several emails and escalated the issue as high as I can. Before I send a nice registered letter to everyone threatening legal action, I was wondering if anyone happens to have the contact information of someone in either company that would be high up enough to actually care.

Also, in my home legal system I would now have to first repair the phone at my cost and then sue for the damages as there must be incurred damage to recover through the courts. Any idea if that's the same here? Repair is only about 300-400 so not worth the time/costs of legal council unfortunately, or I would have called already. But the idea that they're selling insurance that they won't honour based on no valid reason, to the point of actually fabricating clauses in the terms that just simply aren't there to avoid paying infuriates me to no end.

I've gotten used to expecting terrible service here, but this is by far the worst I've had yet.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!
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Old 05.09.2014, 16:25
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

It is ridiculous. I just read the whole T&C (I have the same insurance with them) and it does not mention any of what they are claiming..

If you apply their principle, it would mean that you are not covered if you break your phone while in Airplane mode... because the phone was not on Orange's network during the accident... BS. I wonder if the ombudscom can be of any help...

I laughed at this though (from the list of exclusions). No insurance for bad people!

Quote:
11. Any loss or Damage sustained directly or indirectly by You being a terrorist or member of a terrorist organisation, narcotics trafficker, or purveyor of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, or being directly or indirectly addressed by financial sanction measures of a government, an authority or an international body;
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Old 07.09.2014, 21:12
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

Why do you take insurance? It's like gambling...you stand no chance.
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Old 14.10.2014, 17:26
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

So a bit of an update.

After registered letters, AIG and Orange have both expressed no interest in resolving the issue. AIG cites the Orange log, Orange plays dumb and cites that I need to talk to AIG. Unfortunately the next step is legal action, which just isn't worth the 300 chf cost of repair. At a higher level, Orange is apparently in capable of producing a more granular log that would more than likely demonstrate that the correct device was registered at the time, but that remains out of reach to me without the employment of legal consul. Again, not worth the 300 chf repair.

To sum it up, I highly recommend against giving either of these companies any money. The fact that Orange is a mess internally is well known, but the unethical practice from AIG and staggering incompetence from Orange that I've experienced in this ordeal has really made me wonder how the company is still solvent.
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Old 14.10.2014, 17:56
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

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The fact that Orange is a mess internally is well known, but the unethical practice from AIG and staggering incompetence from Orange that I've experienced in this ordeal has really made me wonder how the company is still solvent.
Probably by selling insurance polices that are incredibly difficult to claim on.
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Old 14.10.2014, 19:33
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

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Probably by selling insurance polices that are incredibly difficult to claim on.
Sure, for the revenue stream. I was more referring to the fact that the blatant fraud involved in denying their own terms to avoid a payout is apparently tolerated.

I have them on tape saying "I know it doesn't say that in the terms and conditions, but that's our policy".

Unbelievable.
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Old 14.10.2014, 19:43
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

Do you have legal cover insurance? Would be sweet it you did and it's with aig
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Old 14.10.2014, 20:29
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

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Do you have legal cover insurance? Would be sweet it you did and it's with aig
No, unfortunately not - otherwise it wouldn't be a question to send them through the courts. I keep meaning to, and after so many issues like this, it's high on the list.
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Old 15.10.2014, 08:07
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

Do you understand AIG's position and why it is reasonable?


Have you asked Orange for detailed logs showing the device ID? Have you got this ( the same as AIG should have ) ?
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Old 15.10.2014, 10:17
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

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Do you understand AIG's position and why it is reasonable?


Have you asked Orange for detailed logs showing the device ID? Have you got this ( the same as AIG should have ) ?
If by reasonable, you mean "collect premiums and aim to deny all claims", then sure I understand. In a supposed just reality however, they're violating the terms and conditions that make up the contractual agreement, so no it's not reasonable.

And yes, as I had said, I've tried to get the logs. THe only one orange is willing to provide is wrong. I only used a single device that day, and the log says it was a different one. I have proof by way of call and sms logs for the day, from my own and the receiving phones. But the device unfortunately doesn't keep tower registration logs without something specifically recording them, which would have required that I expected to run into this issue.
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Old 15.10.2014, 10:33
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Re: Problems with Orange and their "relax" insurance provider AIG

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Before certain characters start squawking about libel and being sued,

[...]

Also, in my home legal system I would now have to first repair the phone at my cost and then sue for the damages as there must be incurred damage to recover through the courts. Any idea if that's the same here?
Now I am a certain character

Sad story, but nice write up and a good example how to describe just the facts.

For the last part, my opinion: Depends what the insurance would actually pay for. If it is for the repair, then yes you need a repair bill first. Then you have to sue. How? I do not know, go the way of pursuit/Betreibung?

The Versicherungsvertragsgesetz does not say anything in this regard. just a reference to the Obligationenrecht in Art. 100

You may also use some other third party help outside the court:
https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/aerge...fuer-die-katz/
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