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  #21  
Old 16.06.2015, 16:46
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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I'll second electrique's recommendation for an SSD. Access to the K550JK's hard drive involves removing the entire base of the computer. No maintenance port. Still, better than the new Acers which entail removal of the mb, keyboard, and back. See youtube for how-to.
And even if done correctly, it would void the warranty... Better buy the laptop with the SSD already.
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  #22  
Old 21.06.2015, 18:50
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

get a Mac Book Air. Windows laptops are inferior
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I want to buy a new laptop.
I found an Asus that I like and interdiscount has 15% off all Asus at the moment so I think it's a good deal. But does it make sense to wait for windows 10 to come out? Will newer models come out at the same time? Or is it just the same models but with windows 10 on it? (I know I can put it on for free). Will all the windows 8 models become cheaper?

Thanks for your advice

This is the one I'm thinking of btw:http://www.interdiscount.ch/idshop/p...tid=0000941420
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  #23  
Old 21.06.2015, 19:47
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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get a Mac Book Air. Windows laptops are inferior
For many people, a Windows laptop is a better choice.
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  #24  
Old 21.06.2015, 20:03
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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For many people, a Windows laptop is a better choice.
I don't think that is generally true.
Though the opposite ("An Apple Laptop is the better choice for everybody") certainly isn't true, either.
So, if you like or need Windows and want to continue to use it (and no intention of changing that), buying an Apple laptop is pretty much pointless.

Quality Windows-Laptops aren't really cheaper (though, that is partly Apple's fault: they have sucked out most (if not all) the profit from most segments of the desktop and mobile PC market, as such leaving competitors fighting for scraps in a downward-spiral of price and quality...as their target audience uses price as the only differentiator - Windows runs on all of them, after all).
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  #25  
Old 21.06.2015, 20:25
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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I don't think that is generally true.
Though the opposite ("An Apple Laptop is the better choice for everybody") certainly isn't true, either.
So, if you like or need Windows and want to continue to use it (and no intention of changing that), buying an Apple laptop is pretty much pointless.

Quality Windows-Laptops aren't really cheaper (though, that is partly Apple's fault: they have sucked out most (if not all) the profit from most segments of the desktop and mobile PC market, as such leaving competitors fighting for scraps in a downward-spiral of price and quality...as their target audience uses price as the only differentiator - Windows runs on all of them, after all).
How can my statement not be true? I didn't say "everybody", I said for "many people". It is factually accurate.

Windows laptops are cheaper and provide more bang for buck, have more capacity and specification options, and not everyone likes Mac OS or finds it easy to adjust after a lifetime of (happily) using Windows.
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  #26  
Old 21.06.2015, 23:02
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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Windows laptops are cheaper and provide more bang for buck, have more capacity and specification options, and not everyone likes Mac OS or finds it easy to adjust after a lifetime of (happily) using Windows.
Totally agree, I use Windows for all my office work but have 2 macbooks in the house. Find it hard to do the simplest of tasks on Macs and have to shamefacedly ask my 14 yr old to help <hangs head in shame>
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  #27  
Old 22.06.2015, 01:43
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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Totally agree, I use Windows for all my office work but have 2 macbooks in the house. Find it hard to do the simplest of tasks on Macs and have to shamefacedly ask my 14 yr old to help <hangs head in shame>
Take a course? Or improve your Google-fu ... Macs are quite logical to use, compared to the hoops Windows make you jump through.


Plus the elephant in the room: Macs don't need antivirus/antimalware by default, one less senseless task to deal with. Wins any hw debate I could have for Windows diehards.
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  #28  
Old 22.06.2015, 06:25
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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Plus the elephant in the room: Macs don't need antivirus/antimalware by default, one less senseless task to deal with.
Rather, Macs are at decreased risk of malware when compared to Windows systems, but that's not the same as not needing protection. You're just more likely to get away scot-free with that choice than you would on a Microsoft system, where compromise is close to a guarantee without protection.

Full disclosure: avid Mac user since ten years (and I recognize the ineptitude that is the unwashed-Windows masses), ex-Unix administrator and long-time security specialist.
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  #29  
Old 22.06.2015, 07:39
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

yes, OSX is considerably better. Does it ship with the firewall on by default?

in short, modern Windows and Mac are both good and you would be sensible to not run as admin and not install every PoS software you fancy.....but put a user in front of the keyboard and anything can happen.

it's purely the widespread popularity of Windows that means most malware is written for that - if OSX was available to install on ANY hardware and thus the OS was more popular then you'd see it targeted equally to Windows.

Because of the tie-in with the hardware, it's usually more expensive to go Mac and get a certain bang for the buck. Plus people will either usually care about image or price first. Cheap is not Mac, "cool" is not Windows. In the end, you are here on EF posting shite in the browser of your choice
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  #30  
Old 22.06.2015, 07:49
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

Hi,
rather unsurprisingly OS X is normally at the top vulnerabilities http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnera...tions-in-2014/ and the pattern is continued into 2015. It is rather naive to think that Macs are by default immune to problems.

I use pcs at work and all my machines at home are running Windows and running well. I am running the Windows 10 preview and I am very pleased with it. In fact all my machines will be upgraded to 10 at the end of July.

I have used Macs and really unless you are locked into their eco system there is very little reason to buy one. They are over priced and there is a learning curve to using them. Some things that are really simple on Windows are very convoluted on the Mac.

With your decision making have a look in a few shops and compare devices. i would avoid the Apple shops as all you will hear is marketing.

Have fun
Martin

Last edited by BaselLife; 22.06.2015 at 08:13.
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  #31  
Old 22.06.2015, 08:12
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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Hi,
rather unsurprisingly OS X is normally at the top vulnerabilities http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnera...tions-in-2014/ and the pattern is continued into 2015. It is rather naive to think that Macs are by default immune to problems.

I use pcs at work and all my machines at home are running Windows and running well. I am running the Windows 10 preview and I am very pleased with it. In fact all my machines will be upgrade to 10 at the end of July.

I have used Macs and really unless you are locked into their eco system there is very little reason to buy one. They are over priced and there is a learning curve to using them. Some things that are really simple on Windows are very convoluted on the Mac.

With your decision making have a look in a few shops and compare devices. i would avoid the Apple shops as all you will hear is marketing.

Have fun
Martin
Wow, that is actually quite shocking... Mac OS appears to lead by a huge margin (almost 5x more overall vulnerabilities than Windows 7 and 8!)... followed swiftly by iOS!

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  #32  
Old 22.06.2015, 10:43
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

Since the computer gurus seem to be active, I'll ask a related question.

We have a laptop that is approaching retirement. No big problems right now, following a complete restore last year, but it's 5 years old, it crashes regularly, the battery is no longer any good and it's getting really slow. And forget about upgrading to the bew OS, it would probably just kill hte poor thing. On the other hand, we don't use it for very complicated stuff: we keep the family pictures there, the iTunes stuff (included downloads of all our CDs), some movies, common correspondance and speadsheets (I have yhis thing about modelling everything on Excel) and a few games. Nothing that warrants NASA grade computer power.

I also have a Mac Book for myself. I have considered moving everything from the pc to the Mac, but a few issues stop me. I mean, the Mac is fast, it never crashes and the battery lasts forever.

1) how difficult is it to do the move? I'm guessing it might not be as easy as puttibg eveyrthing on an external harddisk and plug said hard disk on the Mac...

2) I'm not too keen on moving the iTunes stuff over, as I operate with another iTunes account on the Mac. Not sure how the cohabitation between the Canadian And the Norwegian account would go...

3) I love my Mac, except for anything Excel related. And I spend a lot of time on Excel for a housewife.

Over to you pc- and Mac fans, should I
1) wait it out until the lap-top dies on us? We can probably strech it a year or so...
2) move everything over to Mac and learn to live with Excel for Apple and a schizo iTunes?
3) buy a new pc for family business? In which case I welcome suggestions.
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  #33  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:07
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

You can always upgrade it later to windows 10 for free, but if you are not on a rush i´d wait so your new machine comes with all the w10 optimized-drivers out of the box.

I´ve been using w10 for the last months and it´s gonna be absolutely fantastic. Also I´ve been using from time to time a macbook pro retina my gf has at home, and we hate it, nice piece of hardware but for us it ´s an awful-unproductive OS. It´s going to ricardo as soon as surface pro 4 is out.
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  #34  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:37
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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1) how difficult is it to do the move? I'm guessing it might not be as easy as puttibg eveyrthing on an external harddisk and plug said hard disk on the Mac...

2) I'm not too keen on moving the iTunes stuff over, as I operate with another iTunes account on the Mac. Not sure how the cohabitation between the Canadian And the Norwegian account would go...

3) I love my Mac, except for anything Excel related. And I spend a lot of time on Excel for a housewife.

Over to you pc- and Mac fans, should I
1) wait it out until the lap-top dies on us? We can probably strech it a year or so...
2) move everything over to Mac and learn to live with Excel for Apple and a schizo iTunes?
3) buy a new pc for family business? In which case I welcome suggestions.
I'm gonna answer as 1,2,3,4,5,6 .

1. Moving the data can be interesting. The hard drives are usually differently formatted between Windows OSX and Mac. Generally most machines run NTFS for Windows, and Mac journaled for Mac OSX. However both are exFAT compatible (which has restrictions, so lets talk about that later, but could work: http://www.mactip.net/guide-how-to-f...arty-software/). Is it a lot of data (#GBs?).

2. I do that all the time (US, Swiss and UK account) - but each account serves a different purpose for me. Do you have, for example, purchased music across both accounts? Even having 2 users with separate apple ids on the same machine can create problems (apple are aware of this). Do you still use both of the accounts regularly to purchase?

3. Excel for mac isn't great, but it isn't terrible either. For when I really need to get everything out of the windows version, I switch to windows on the Mac or work on another machine - may I ask what aspect of excel for Mac is so deterring?

4. I'd personally plan ahead, better to have a replacement before the other one kicks the bucket and then having additional time stress when and if the other machine does fail. If having windows is a huge priority, but you still prefer the Mac OSX have you though about running 2 operating systems on one machine. I use parallels on all three of my Macs to be able to switch. I find it very cheap and user friendly. It isn't complex at all. You just need enough hard drive space.

5. It sounds to me like you want to move but are daunted by it. I'd happily help via the forums (I personally moved all of my day to day computer work over to Mac OSX a few years ago). Having to have 2 machines readily available would be too much hassle for me.

6. I'm sorry maybe I misunderstood this point - are you thinking of keeping the mac and replacing the windows machine to keep to separate environments alive?

Sorry, I seem to ask more questions than providing answers , but I'd rather give the best answers I can.

Small disclaimer: I don't prefer apple to microsoft or vice-versa. I have 2 Windows only machines and like them very much, I also have 3 macs, which I also love. I also never speculate on future OS - it makes sense to work with what you have now, and assume that the upgrade won't have a massive impact. At least in my experience, being a first adopter on new OS, always has a downside.

Best of luck,
Jack
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  #35  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:48
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

Good config at good price

https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/product...tebook-3525379
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  #36  
Old 22.06.2015, 11:58
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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I'm gonna answer as 1,2,3,4,5,6 .

1. Moving the data can be interesting. The hard drives are usually differently formatted between Windows OSX and Mac. Generally most machines run NTFS for Windows, and Mac journaled for Mac OSX. However both are exFAT compatible (which has restrictions, so lets talk about that later, but could work: http://www.mactip.net/guide-how-to-f...arty-software/). Is it a lot of data (#GBs?).

2. I do that all the time (US, Swiss and UK account) - but each account serves a different purpose for me. Do you have, for example, purchased music across both accounts? Even having 2 users with separate apple ids on the same machine can create problems (apple are aware of this). Do you still use both of the accounts regularly to purchase?

3. Excel for mac isn't great, but it isn't terrible either. For when I really need to get everything out of the windows version, I switch to windows on the Mac or work on another machine - may I ask what aspect of excel for Mac is so deterring?

4. I'd personally plan ahead, better to have a replacement before the other one kicks the bucket and then having additional time stress when and if the other machine does fail. If having windows is a huge priority, but you still prefer the Mac OSX have you though about running 2 operating systems on one machine. I use parallels on all three of my Macs to be able to switch. I find it very cheap and user friendly. It isn't complex at all. You just need enough hard drive space.

5. It sounds to me like you want to move but are daunted by it. I'd happily help via the forums (I personally moved all of my day to day computer work over to Mac OSX a few years ago). Having to have 2 machines readily available would be too much hassle for me.

6. I'm sorry maybe I misunderstood this point - are you thinking of keeping the mac and replacing the windows machine to keep to separate environments alive?

Sorry, I seem to ask more questions than providing answers , but I'd rather give the best answers I can.

Small disclaimer: I don't prefer apple to microsoft or vice-versa. I have 2 Windows only machines and like them very much, I also have 3 macs, which I also love. I also never speculate on future OS - it makes sense to work with what you have now, and assume that the upgrade won't have a massive impact. At least in my experience, being a first adopter on new OS, always has a downside.

Best of luck,
Jack
1. It's pretty much what I've heard, not impossible but possible time-consuming. We have something like 15 years of pictures, 200-300 CDs, movies and lots of Word and pdfs. We're pretty normal regular users.

2. Films and TV-series come from the Canadian account, which my Mac is always logged on to. The music and all the apps (3 iPads and 2 iPhones worth of apps) are on the pc, using the Norwegian account. Both accounts are used regularly.

3. I know all the keyboard commands in Excel for Windows, things like switching from a document to another, copy/paste special, all the F- commands. It goes pretty fast after more than 10 years of financial modelling on Excel for Windows. I'm not quite getting the same rapidity and ease of use on the Mac, hence I still do all the complicated stuff on the pc. I know it's probably fully possible to build a financial analysis model with simple macros on a Mac, but it would take me a lot longer than on a pc.

4. Interesting, didn't know it was possible to run Windows on a Mac. But I don't really care about the operative system, as long as it works...again, not a computer geek, just a regular user.

5. Not daunted, just uncertain whether I really want this, both due to the hassle of doing the transfer (thank for the offer to help, btw) and because I kind of like having my own machine together with a family machine, Better-Half can play games while I do my own stuff. But there are strong arguments to migrate everything over to Apple hardware.

6. Yep, I am. A pc for the family, a Mac for me. But it feels somewhat wrong to have the music and pictures on the pc when the Mac probably is a better machine for that kind of work. On the other hand, I like my Mac and I don't really feel like sharing. :roll eyes:

I put myself in the same box as you in your disclaimer, but in the amateur category. I like my Mac and I find it very practical, but I liked the pc as well when it was new. The only reasons we have iPads and iPhones are logistics and ease of use, and because that's what we got first (and replacing Apple with Apple is really simple). Since all our portable devices are Apple, going over to Mac for the home stuff would make sense. But old Treasury me finds having two Mac books for 2 adult and 1 6-year old a bit OTT in terms of expense.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:48
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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1. It's pretty much what I've heard, not impossible but possible time-consuming. We have something like 15 years of pictures, 200-300 CDs, movies and lots of Word and pdfs. We're pretty normal regular users.

2. Films and TV-series come from the Canadian account, which my Mac is always logged on to. The music and all the apps (3 iPads and 2 iPhones worth of apps) are on the pc, using the Norwegian account. Both accounts are used regularly.

3. I know all the keyboard commands in Excel for Windows, things like switching from a document to another, copy/paste special, all the F- commands. It goes pretty fast after more than 10 years of financial modelling on Excel for Windows. I'm not quite getting the same rapidity and ease of use on the Mac, hence I still do all the complicated stuff on the pc. I know it's probably fully possible to build a financial analysis model with simple macros on a Mac, but it would take me a lot longer than on a pc.

4. Interesting, didn't know it was possible to run Windows on a Mac. But I don't really care about the operative system, as long as it works...again, not a computer geek, just a regular user.

5. Not daunted, just uncertain whether I really want this, both due to the hassle of doing the transfer (thank for the offer to help, btw) and because I kind of like having my own machine together with a family machine, Better-Half can play games while I do my own stuff. But there are strong arguments to migrate everything over to Apple hardware.

6. Yep, I am. A pc for the family, a Mac for me. But it feels somewhat wrong to have the music and pictures on the pc when the Mac probably is a better machine for that kind of work. On the other hand, I like my Mac and I don't really feel like sharing. :roll eyes:

I put myself in the same box as you in your disclaimer, but in the amateur category. I like my Mac and I find it very practical, but I liked the pc as well when it was new. The only reasons we have iPads and iPhones are logistics and ease of use, and because that's what we got first (and replacing Apple with Apple is really simple). Since all our portable devices are Apple, going over to Mac for the home stuff would make sense. But old Treasury me finds having two Mac books for 2 adult and 1 6-year old a bit OTT in terms of expense.
Thanks for your answers!

1. Ok, transferring should be pretty straight forward

2. This is most difficult part I think - when you buy something with one account, it essentially leases you that countries version. Lets assume I had apple id 1 in the UK, and swapped it to Switzerland (all you need is a Swiss Credit Card) everything I ever bought in the UK wouldn't show up as bought on the swiss store, however, if I purchase something in the swiss store that I had bought in the UK store, even though it says 'purchase' on the app store, it will tell me I own it already and it will download. Its a big mess. This will eventually lead to heart attack, as some of the software I bought is pricy and clicking on 500 CHF purchase always gets my pulse racing (even though I know it will work). Even more so when it comes to country specific apps (like Classic FM radio app doesn't exist in CH ). However, I tried to consolidate the most used account to have everything but it took me forever. My US iTunes is for books, Swiss for Software and Apps, Uk also for software and music. This is a huge pain point for many apple users: "Unfortunately folks, we do not make the rules, Apple does. The bottom line is that there is no way to transfer apps from one ID to another ID. Apple just does not allow it and it is really that simple." - https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3784854

3+4. I would look into buying parallels: http://www.parallels.com/products/desktop as a personal recommendation. So I use my mac for work related things, occasionally I need to use windows only software, I can just click on the parallels icon and it launches a Windows Machine on my Mac in 'parallel' to whatever is open on my Mac OS. Originally I bought it to be able to run Microsoft visual studio, I use it for so much more ever since I got it (roughly 2 years ago?) - you can even copy paste from one window to the other. Before that I used to have a separate windows partition, but this is complicated, requires a reboot and doesn't allow both systems to run at the same time. Consumer warning though: you'll need a valid windows key - as everything comes pre-installed these days on OEM license, I wouldn't be surprised if you have to buy windows key ontop of parallels. Conclusively, I believe parallels was made for someone in your situation.

5+6. I think you summed up what you want .

So it boils down to 2 questions: How many computers and what operating systems .

I need my own machine (actually, more than one ) just to know its mine and its kept well organised etc. Then its a cost/preference question: My cheapest machine if we look at ROI in $ per minute my most expensive mac is actually the cheapest because its the oldest machine, its still the fastest and I use it most. I'm very cost conservative when it comes to my IT purchases and hate that the same hardware in apple machine (this could be debatable) usually costs more than the same hardware in a microsoft equivalent.

So conclusively, if I were you, I'd spend a sensible amount on a family Windows machine, where you can do your excel work and the rest of the family can use as they please and then a private Mac machine which fulfils the other needs (which you already have). It would also be cheaper than buying a family mac that runs both Windows and Mac OSX.

Although the general rule is that the mac would hurt your wallet more, its not always the case. My ASUS laptop was about 2.5k CHF - so take all the price discussion stuff with a pinch of salt, to a degree you will get what you pay for (with apple, factor in a premium). Getting a windows machine to run OSX (not linux) is far more complicated than the other way around.

Hope it helps!
Jack
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:57
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

That's quite a lot for your bucks ...... don't often see i7's - and 16 gig - for much under a grand.
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Old 22.06.2015, 13:21
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

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That's quite a lot for your bucks ...... don't often see i7's - and 16 gig - for much under a grand.
Not to mention it has a passable graphics card too... Nvidia 745M.
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Old 22.06.2015, 13:46
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Re: buying new laptop, wait for windows 10?

It looks a bit dated, not surprising as it's two years old.

- DVD drive is bit pointless, and just adds weight

- lack of SSD also slows it down, reduces battery life and adds weight

Getting a big saving to buy an older model can work, but only if you don't then end up replacing it earlier and wasting the saving.
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