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  #21  
Old 16.06.2017, 15:58
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Expensive calls to Swiss numbers, roaming charges when not in the EU, etc.

Tom

P.S. As Switzerland is not in the EU, roaming charges will apply when in Switzerland.
Nope. At a glance FL providers seem to lump FL+CH together, be that together with DE/AT/IT or all EU.
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  #22  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:04
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Nope. At a glance FL providers seem to lump FL+CH together, be that together with DE/AT/IT or all EU.
That may work for providers in FL, but not for those in I, F, D or A.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:04
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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P.S. As Switzerland is not in the EU, roaming charges will apply when in Switzerland.
I told in my posting that free roaming in Switzerland is included in this deal.

So why you think that i am lying about this, or you think that you know more about the Dutch offerings then i do is a complete mystery to me, but do care to explain after you did your homework.

Besides that there's advantages in situations, i for example have a cheap wired phone at home, and my mobile gets messages from friends and family and i use it to browse and to answer al the phonecalls from all those health insurances.

So yeah in my situation going Dutch would save money. And i never said it's a good deal for everybody.
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  #24  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:08
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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It will take some time since most Swiss people still prefer a Swiss number, but the youth doesn't care and often just wants a cheap good offer, so in some time i see Swiss providers being forced to lower the prices since more and more people will cross the border to get a foreign simcard.

For example in Holland i pay 35,- for unlimited calling/sms and 10GB/month of 4G mobile internet which is also valid in Switzerland. Or 25,- for 120 minutes of calling and 10GB of 4G internet. And i know of a bunch of Dutch that they indeed will switch from Swiss numbers to Dutch numbers.
I also know of a number of people who have European mobiles in Switzerland as they pay less for data and calls here (with roaming) than if they were on a Swiss contract.
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Old 16.06.2017, 16:09
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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They will deliver the sim card, and expect the billing address, to be in the country you're pretending to live in.

Plus there's usually a limited number of days roaming allowed (to stop people buying the card in one country and going to live in another) after which it's deactivated.
I never said it would be on my name, why would i, and what difference would it make to me? Like the lage majority of the expats (which on percentage is a huge group in this country) i for example just ask my sister to send me a few sims.

There's no limitation on the amount of days per month, there's atm only the possibility for them to cancel an account after 6 months if they suspect commercial roaming or other fraud. I don't mind a new number every now and then for a cellphone.
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  #26  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:10
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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I also know of a number of people who have European mobiles in Switzerland as they pay less for data and calls here (with roaming) than if they were on a Swiss contract.
And it's only getting cheaper for them since a lof of European providers have put Switzerland in the same roaming group as EU countries.
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  #27  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:27
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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That may work for providers in FL, but not for those in I, F, D or A.

Tom
Since baboon's post this is about FL providers exclusively. At least that's how I understand it.
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  #28  
Old 16.06.2017, 16:30
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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You started this attempt at a conversation by stating "more and more people will cross the border to get a foreign simcard" and then tried to back out of it by drip feeding more and more personal details about how you actually were only thinking of your situation.
I also stated that i know more people using foreign numbers, or who are planning to. Among the group of people i know in this country the usage of foreign cellphones is growing due to the current regulations and offerings.

Nothing to do with dripping out, how they do it is up to them. I thought that everybody had the common sense to realise how such works. Unfortunately i got disappointed.
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  #29  
Old 17.06.2017, 00:09
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Since baboon's post this is about FL providers exclusively. At least that's how I understand it.
The post Tom groaned was about Dutch numbers.

FL is a special case. They do make it hard for those living further away to get hold of FL sims as (at least for the provider I will be looking at) you can only get it in person.
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  #30  
Old 17.06.2017, 16:23
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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And it's only getting cheaper for them since a lof of European providers have put Switzerland in the same roaming group as EU countries.
I only know of one in Germany, none in Greece.
Do you have some more examples (for my curiosity)?
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  #31  
Old 18.06.2017, 02:02
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

In order to understand what's possible and what's not, it would be pertinent to know what the EU regulation sais.

First of all it's an "EU regulation with EEA relevance", in short it's valid and binding in all EU countries plus Liechtenstein, Norway and Iceland.

In detail it regulates 2 things:
  • what mobile phone operators may charge their customers AND
  • what mobile phone operators may charge each other
The outcome is sometimes illogical, but let's look at the details:


what mobile phone operators may charge each other:
  • 1 GB of data may cost €7.70, charged in 1KB-intervals and set to decrease to €2.50 by 2022
  • 1 SMS = 1c
  • 1 call minute = 3.2c, charged 30/1 seconds
  • Note the maximum is a real amount which will actually be due

what mobile phone operators may charge their customer:

  • The customer may not be charged more than in their domestic tarif; whatever that might be.
  • Note that this is relative


Possible problems:
  • If a customer avails of a (so far domestic) flatrate, the operator doesn't incur costs, other than the sunk cost of operating the network and (cheap) national interconnect
  • If national rates are cheaper than the enforced international limits (flatrate or cheap rates), the operator will make substantial losses whenever a customer uses their phone abroad

Solution:

  • The EU foresaw above problem, if and when customers start using cards more internationally than nationally. In this case operators may, after a warning, start charging surcharges (i.e. roaming charges are not 100% abolished).

The "Swiss" problem:
  • As the regulation doesn't apply here, Swiss and EU networks may continue to mutually charge each other as they like, and pass those charges on to their customers.
  • I don't know how to check what they really charge each other, but I guess Swiss and EU networks agreed to stick to the same rules as per regulation. Reasons:
    • There are a lot of German tarifs in all 3 German networks which include Switzerland as if it were an EU country. I guess they wouldn't do this at a loss.
    • All Swiss operators offer roaming packages. Agreed, they're not very attractive, but I guess that's just the usual "Swiss" surcharge.
Liechtenstein is an EEA-country and has traditional ties to Switzerland. As such Switzerland now offers EU/EEA/Switzerland tarifs. But considering the German alternatives I would always go for one of those.


It will be interesting to see how prices develop in this light.


Example:

I heard of a Lithunian SIM card which offers 1MB=1c; i.e. 1GB is €10.24, but paid exactly per MB as used. They would still make a profit of €2.54/GB if one of their customers uses this abroad. If it included Switzerland I guess I'd get one of these cards just for data, but obviously not the case.
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  #32  
Old 18.06.2017, 21:23
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

Let's not forget that operators get charged for what their customers consume abroad but they counter-charge for the usage of visitors on their network.
So operator A will have to pay operator B and vice versa.
I can imagine that operators from countries that mostly "export" tourists are the losers here, especially independent ones such as Tele2 or TDC that do not belong to a major group. But what they can do is negotiate lower prices in exchange exclusivity, e.g Tele2's Swedish customers only being able to roam on Wind's network in Italy and Greece.
Existing alliances such as Deutsche Telekom, Orange and Telia might already be doing this, does anybody know?
What I know is that my German Vodafone postpaid subscription refused to connect to Cosmote's and Wind's networks when I was in Greece in April (I've already had free EU roaming since last year with Vodafone Deutschland, sadly not in Switzerland).
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  #33  
Old 18.06.2017, 21:25
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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There are a lot of German tarifs in all 3 German networks which include Switzerland as if it were an EU country. I guess they wouldn't do this at a loss
Can you give three examples?
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  #34  
Old 18.06.2017, 21:49
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Can you give three examples?
I´d be very interested!!
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  #35  
Old 19.06.2017, 13:22
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UPC is abolishing roaming

Well, here we go. We have the first player who plays the EU included game at fair prices:

https://www.upc.ch/en/about/about-us...1_12066_ku62e0


New contracts starting 29th June 2017

Mobile Europe 1,000 Flat - CHF 35/month
- 1,000 MB High Speed Internet in CH & EU
- Unlimited data in CH
- Unlimited WhatsApp messaging in CH
- Unlimited calls and texts in CH & EU*


Mobile Europe 4,000 Flat - CHF 45/month
- 4,000 MB High Speed Internet in CH & EU
- Unlimited data in CH
- Unlimited WhatsApp messaging in CH
- Unlimited calls and texts in CH & EU*


Mobile Europe 10,000 Flat - CHF 65/month
- 10,000 MB High Speed Internet in CH & EU
- Unlimited data in CH
- Unlimited WhatsApp messaging in CH
- Unlimited calls and texts in CH & EU*


*Calls from Switzerland to EU countries and outgoing calls between EU countries are not included.
** To benefit from the special price, a UPC Internet product with at least 100 Mbit/s is required, e.g. UPC Connect 200

Last edited by Ace1; 19.06.2017 at 14:39.
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  #36  
Old 19.06.2017, 13:33
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Can you give three examples?
Same for Holland, most (or at least a nice amount) providers include Switzerland in the EU group and thus it is included in the free roaming packages.

T-mobile.de - https://www.telekom.de/unterwegs/tar...aendergruppe-1

Last edited by EdwinNL; 19.06.2017 at 13:52.
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  #37  
Old 19.06.2017, 14:17
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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Same for Holland, most (or at least a nice amount) providers include Switzerland in the EU group and thus it is included in the free roaming packages.

T-mobile.de - https://www.telekom.de/unterwegs/tar...aendergruppe-1

I can't believe I went with Vodafone. Unfortunately Vodafone Germany does not include free roaming to Switzerland.
When we moved to our new flat Vodafone offered us 200 Mbps Cable Internet while Telekom only offered VDSL up to 50 Mbps, so we took Vodafone. Today I would have chosen Telekom's 100 Mbps VDSL plus free roaming in Switzerland.


PS. T-mobile.de does not exist. The brand T-Mobile has been killed off years ago.
PS2. Most German operators still do not include Switzerland. But thanks for the tip about Telekom.
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Old 19.06.2017, 14:20
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Re: In 2017 No More Roaming Charges in EU

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PS. T-mobile.de does not exist. The brand T-Mobile has been killed off years ago.
Ah, o.k. I am Dutch, and in Holland they still operate as T-mobile with same colors and logo, that's why i called it T-mobile.

And we are doubting if in Switzerland we should change to UPS, we now have sun which offers 500/50 which tbh is except an occasional download is absolute overkill. (XboX live network caps at 200mb anyway :P )
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  #39  
Old 19.06.2017, 14:24
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Re: UPC is abolishing roaming - New contracts

Wunderbar. Will all the others follow suit, I wonder? I've just finished my 1-year special at 59 per month for Europe-wide service with Salt, so it's time to change, or maybe they will try and match this deal.

I guess I can wait a few more days to see what's going to happen.
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  #40  
Old 19.06.2017, 14:26
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Re: UPC is abolishing roaming - New contracts

The only difference between these and the ones on the market (Salt) is that the new UPC contract don't offer calling from Switzerland to any other countries.
You have unlimited calls only in CH, the country you are roaming (if you are in Germany you can call only in Germany and CH for free).
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