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  #21  
Old 29.04.2020, 14:46
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

A Kaba lock, the defacto standard for mechanical locks here, can be picked without damage in a couple of minutes.

Will insurance pay out if your lock is picked and there is no forced entry?
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  #22  
Old 29.04.2020, 14:59
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

Usually there must be a proof of some sort that clearly shows that the door wasn't just open by an accident. That the intruder had to break in. A fancy tech lock that might be possible to hack worries me. Of course it would be possible to open a standard lock even without a physical key but it will often be possible to see physical scrathes ect.

I would definitely be sure that my insurances are going to cover by using this sort of lock. Hence my question.
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  #23  
Old 29.04.2020, 15:00
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

Yup I meant burglary.
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  #24  
Old 29.04.2020, 15:21
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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I would definitely be sure that my insurances are going to cover by using this sort of lock. Hence my question.
I asked my insurance company. They said it wouldn't make any difference to the insurance.

We have finger-print locks but I was specifically asking the insurance company about a home-built alarm which was explicitly not to deter burglars but to inform us if there had been a break-in whilst we were on holiday (by SMS) so we could get the friendly neighbours to call the Police if necessary and make arrangements to make the place secure again until our return.

In other countries, having a 'professionally installed and maintained' alarm can decrease your insurance premiums by quite a bit.

As for any electronic locks - ensure that the wires that actually lead to the unlocking solenoid are not accessible from the outside (by removing a cover for example).
I believe the UBolt Pro is fine in this respect but others may not be.
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:07
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

We’ve had Nuki locks for about three years now (ik, not suitable for some locks). They’ve been absolutely solid with not one issue in the entire time. As for security: if you break a window near the door, you could possibly reach inside and push the unlock button. That said: if you break through a window, you don’t really need to unlock the door anyway. And as for smart locks in general: they finally eliminate the problem of lost and stolen keys or having to hand out keys to people who need access to the house (nanny, dog walker, cleaning people etc).
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  #26  
Old 18.05.2020, 13:19
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

I'm a technology geek, but I wouldn't use any off-the-shelf smartlock product as I simply don't trust them and don't believe they can get the security right.

For keyless entry, an electronic strike with keypad is sufficient and doesn't require an internet connection.
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:11
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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I'm a technology geek, but I wouldn't use any off-the-shelf smartlock product as I simply don't trust them and don't believe they can get the security right.

For keyless entry, an electronic strike with keypad is sufficient and doesn't require an internet connection.
I think the possibility for an internet connection is a big part of the value proposition that some people want in it: the possibility to monitor entry remotely, or unlock with the phone.
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  #28  
Old 18.05.2020, 16:22
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

Another thing to consider is default power on behaviour,

Though power cuts are rare, you still need to account them.

a friend of mine had his smart blinds open and smart lights on while they were on vacation and there was a short power-cut at their home due to storm.
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  #29  
Old 18.05.2020, 16:33
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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A Kaba lock, the defacto standard for mechanical locks here, can be picked without damage in a couple of minutes.

Will insurance pay out if your lock is picked and there is no forced entry?
We have cameras in the house that cover the doors and windows, which I can monitor on my phone or tablet while away. They also record continuously and have a 3 day battery backup should the power be cut. In the event of the locks being picked we would have the evidence to show the police and insurance company.

They are quite cheap and easy to install so if worried that could be a good solution.
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  #30  
Old 18.05.2020, 16:52
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

Do understand if you use an electronic cylinder, the Swiss cylinder diameter (22mm) is different to EU diameter (14mm). (prob a Swiss Masons thing, like the power sockets :-P )

Additionally, cylinder length also needs to be measured correctly.

Kind Regards,
Ian
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  #31  
Old 18.05.2020, 16:57
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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Another thing to consider is default power on behaviour,

Though power cuts are rare, you still need to account them.

a friend of mine had his smart blinds open and smart lights on while they were on vacation and there was a short power-cut at their home due to storm.
We had a massive roller blind over our terrace. It's default position upon power up (after a power cut for example) was to open fully.

It had a timer to close in the evening.

When we were away, a power cut coincided with heavy rain (it was a storm). The blind opened, got really wet and then rolled itself up, stayed rolled-up and and went mouldy.
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  #32  
Old 18.05.2020, 16:59
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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We have cameras in the house that cover the doors and windows, which I can monitor on my phone or tablet while away. They also record continuously and have a 3 day battery backup should the power be cut. In the event of the locks being picked we would have the evidence to show the police and insurance company.
Do they operate with motion?

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They are quite cheap and easy to install so if worried that could be a good solution.
What make/model are they?
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  #33  
Old 18.05.2020, 17:52
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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I think the possibility for an internet connection is a big part of the value proposition that some people want in it: the possibility to monitor entry remotely, or unlock with the phone.
monitoring can be done with a sensor instead of a lock.

i guess it depends how important it is to be able to lock/unlock via the internet.
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  #34  
Old 19.05.2020, 11:27
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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i guess it depends how important it is to be able to lock/unlock via the internet.
I would never use remote locking/unlocking for a residential property unless you are confident it's penetration resistant. I'm only aware of KMU/corporate level solutions that fit this criteria.

Additionally, you'd probably want to confirm with your household insurance to see if you'd still be insured with electronic locks.
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  #35  
Old 19.05.2020, 11:33
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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Do they operate with motion?
What make/model are they?
One does, the other doesn't, that has a 512gb card installed.
Both DLink with a backup power bank fitted.

We have a similar setup (motion detector) in S. Africa, but that's more to watch game passing by and check that the baboons are not causing havoc with the thatched roof. I get an alarm on my phone and if it is baboons we can call the game rangers who'll shoo them away.

Power there is supplied via an inverter with batteries. So electrical power - batteries - inverter - home. If power goes (which it does frequently) then the power is continually supplied thanks to the battery and inverter.
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  #36  
Old 19.05.2020, 11:43
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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I would never use remote locking/unlocking for a residential property unless you are confident it's penetration resistant. I'm only aware of KMU/corporate level solutions that fit this criteria.

Additionally, you'd probably want to confirm with your household insurance to see if you'd still be insured with electronic locks.
We've got a fingerprint scanner lock which I suppose is also an electronic lock.

I think it's the best of both worlds:

It's connected to my LAN but only read-only for opening/closing events etc and a record of who opened it.

But, there are no keys for children to lose and no need to take a key on a run etc.

I can also program in other people for a short while without having to hand them a real key.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to unlock a door remotely as a frequent occurrence.
I guess there are possible occasions when one would but probably not enough times compared with the risk.
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  #37  
Old 19.05.2020, 12:30
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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We've got a fingerprint scanner lock which I suppose is also an electronic lock.

I think it's the best of both worlds:

It's connected to my LAN but only read-only for opening/closing events etc and a record of who opened it.

But, there are no keys for children to lose and no need to take a key on a run etc.

I can also program in other people for a short while without having to hand them a real key.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to unlock a door remotely as a frequent occurrence.
I guess there are possible occasions when one would but probably not enough times compared with the risk.
I have a fingerprint sensor on the door for the same reasons - I absolutely hate keys and have a tendency to lose them. Writing of new fingerprints is a relatively cumbersome procedure that involves physical access to the electrical cupboard.

I also have a videophone with entry button which is connected to an app, so that I can see and speak with whoever presses the doorbell from my phone/tablet etc. I've used the entry button once to let myself in when I couldn't get a fingerprint read as my fingers were wet or dirty. I realise that there is a potential security risk here, but I think the chances of someone a) wanting to rob me, b) realising that we have a remote unlocking capability, c) knowing which vendor it is (it isn't a random start up or American data slurped), d) finding a flaw and being able to technically execute it are very low and frankly I can think of two much more low tech attack vectors they are likely to use.
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  #38  
Old 19.05.2020, 23:25
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

Seems it's time to post another plug for the Ultraloq U-Bolt.
  • Internet access is an optional extra, via a separate wifi bridge.
  • Fingerprint unlocking, plus PIN (in case you lose your fingers and can use your nose to punch the digits), plus phone via Bluetooth (several methods of entry).
  • Physical key, in case all else fails (you can hide it somewhere outside).
  • Long-lasting batteries (well over a year with alkaline batteries) so power cuts aren't an issue.
  • USB port for a powerbank, if you somehow manage to ignore a couple of months' worth of low battery warnings.
  • Access/usage log.
  • Easy to program guest fingerprints/PINs/mobile phones via an app.
  • Automatic locking for peace of mind -- and you can verify that the door is locked via the app (requires internet access if you're not at home, obviously).

I'd say everything is covered. We also have a Ring video doorbell so can verify anybody at the door who asks to be let in remotely. The doorbell and lock can be paired via IFTTT, too.
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  #39  
Old 20.05.2020, 10:08
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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I have a fingerprint sensor on the door for the same reasons - I absolutely hate keys and have a tendency to lose them. Writing of new fingerprints is a relatively cumbersome procedure that involves physical access to the electrical cupboard.
Mine has a little finger scanner that plugs into a USB port so it's pretty user-friendly to set up new users (or re-do them when your childrens' fingers grow).
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  #40  
Old 27.05.2020, 21:26
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Re: Smart Lock options in Switzerland

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Another thing to consider is default power on behaviour,

Though power cuts are rare, you still need to account them.

a friend of mine had his smart blinds open and smart lights on while they were on vacation and there was a short power-cut at their home due to storm.
Most of the lock options today run on batteries
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