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  #241  
Old 17.01.2019, 11:56
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Because itís a new service, there is probably a paper bill the first time. You can select direct deposit (LSV), ebill and continue on the paperless route. Looks like they donít have their shit together and didnít transfer payment method from billig.
I don't think they legally can. Serafe is a different company, a client needs to agree.
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  #242  
Old 17.01.2019, 11:57
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Now I get a paper letter addressed not only to me but also to my daughter, stating we are both liable to pay.
Why both, do you live at separate addresses?

Tom
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  #243  
Old 17.01.2019, 12:05
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

After having ranted >>here<<, I decided to have another look at the paper they sent re paperless bill.


There's two QR-codes on the paper, one of which diverts to a SERAFE website where you can immediately update your data. No need to log in.


If this works, it's actually quite well done.


The link embedded in the QR code is something like this:


https://qrcode.serafe.ch/haushalt.aspx?hn=(customerNumber)&cd=(AccesCode)


I wouldn't know of any way to access this without QR-code reader.
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  #244  
Old 17.01.2019, 12:07
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Why both, do you live at separate addresses?
Collectively liable.


If the daughter is above 18, that's technically correct.


Everyone in a single household above 18 is collectively responsible to pay.
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  #245  
Old 17.01.2019, 12:14
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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P's me off.

Until now I was totally paper free with Billag - all bills paid electronically - nothing in the mailbox - so one of those unwanted things that sorts itself out.
Like taxes and dying, Billag is inevitable.

Now I get a paper letter addressed not only to me but also to my daughter, stating we are both liable to pay extortionate costs for this truly shxt service, that we never use (don't even have a TV).

The name on the envelope just wanted to make me discard it with any other unwanted junk flyers. Only opened it because it had all occupants named.
Otherwise with the name SERAFE it would have immediately gone unopened into the bin.

Know that there's there's no recourse, but it get's my hackles up.
And yet, you were perfectly happy to pay more to Billag for the same shxt service...
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  #246  
Old 17.01.2019, 15:46
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Like taxes and dying, Billag is inevitable.
Wrong, as plural examples in threads here show
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  #247  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:05
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Why both, do you live at separate addresses?

Tom
No, we live at the same address and she is an adult (24).

But I pay for the bills concerning our home until she finishes her education, and there is no way I want her to be liable if I default financially for whatever reason.

It's the first post ever that I've received addressed to both of us (the only reason I didn't bin it), and that with a legal and financial obligation that I/we never signed up for.

If I drop dead tomorrow, then she is obligated to pay this without ever been aware of the debt obligation in the first place. Non-payment of debts in CH can have serious impact on your credit, work and rental accommodation possibilities.

I'm sure that the old Billag is equally as stringent as the obligatory health insurance (and with the same legal rights) on this when it comes to getting their cash i.e. serious debt collection
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  #248  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:09
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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And yet, you were perfectly happy to pay more to Billag for the same shxt service...
There is no choice as far as I'm aware (and it might be overdue that you remove the Santa hat from your profile
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  #249  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:11
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

If you don't pay it, your daughter is liable. Just as any other adult that may or may not live in your flat.

That's all there is to it. So it's up to you whether this law will be applied or not. It's only in the leaflet for people who don't know about it. So in your case it was a good idea to mention it it seems.
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  #250  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:14
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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it might be overdue that you remove the Santa hat from your profile
maybe it is on there early ready for next Christmas, after all in Australia don't they have it in the summer? so only a few months to go if you think about it
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  #251  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:19
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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maybe it is on there early ready for next Christmas, after all in Australia don't they have it in the summer? so only a few months to go if you think about it
Several people here wore (and still do) the santa hat all the way through since Christmas 2016
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  #252  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:22
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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...there is no way I want her to be liable if I default financially for whatever reason...
Everyone who is over 18 AND resident in any household in Switzerland is, by law, liable.


Don't get me wrong, I'm against Billag/SERAFE, and I supported the no-billag initiative. But it's just the way it is.


If you want your daughter not to be (co-)liable, there's no way out except leaving Switzerland.
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  #253  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:48
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Everyone in a single household above 18 is collectively responsible to pay.
Why does everybody say you're collectively liable? "Collectively" means you're liable for your share, doesn't it?

In fact, each of the grownups in the household is, and can be held, liable for the full amount. "Can" because it's Serafe's choice who they go after, if they do.
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  #254  
Old 17.01.2019, 16:55
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Why does everybody say you're collectively liable? "Collectively" means you're liable for your share, doesn't it?

In fact, each of the grownups in the household is, and can be held, liable for the full amount. "Can" because it's Serafe's choice who they go after, if they do.
Nope. Collectively liable means, the money owed must be payed by these people. If A doesn't pay, they go after B ..... then C ....
Whether they share the costs amongst them is of no interest - the full amount is due in one payment.
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  #255  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:19
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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It's the first post ever that I've received addressed to both of us (the only reason I didn't bin it), and that with a legal and financial obligation that I/we never signed up for.
You "signed up" for this when you registered the residency of you and your daughter.

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I don't think they legally can. Serafe is a different company, a client needs to agree.
Not if it is regulate by a law. It is. Art. 69f Abs. 5 RTVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a69f


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Everyone in a single household above 18 is collectively responsible to pay.
Jointly and several liable seems to be the correct term
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_...eral_liability
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  #256  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:23
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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I don't think they legally can. Serafe is a different company, a client needs to agree.
In which case it is strange that Billag was still trying to sign people up so late. The last letter they sent me was in late November.

If they weren't getting money for the database, that sort of strategy doesn't make sense.

If I was a company like that and know I was folding end of the year and had no purposed thereafter, i'd ramp down all expenditure, lay off the staff and party on the (cut of the) remaining income.

That is, unless there is serious money being payed on a per address basis come the year's end.

Serious money that Serafe is going to have to extract from somewhere. So all the good folks on this forum who think they are doing a good turn by altruistically supplying money for yet another mind-numbingly stupid game show, may in fact be mistaken.
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  #257  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:28
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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Because itís a new service, there is probably a paper bill the first time. You can select direct deposit (LSV), ebill and continue on the paperless route. Looks like they donít have their shit together and didnít transfer payment method from billig.
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I don't think they legally can. Serafe is a different company, a client needs to agree.
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.....

Not if it is regulate by a law. It is. Art. 69f Abs. 5 RTVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a69f]


Article 69 does not give Serafe the right to ebill - or worse LSV - a client just because Billag was allowed to.
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  #258  
Old 17.01.2019, 17:33
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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In which case it is strange that Billag was still trying to sign people up so late. The last letter they sent me was in late November.

If they weren't getting money for the database, that sort of strategy doesn't make sense.

If you're a company like that and you know you're folding end of the year and have no purposed thereafter, i'd ramp down all expenditure, lay off the staff and party on the (cut of the) remaining income.

That is, unless there is serious money being payed on a per address basis come the year's end.

what is it with y'all quoting my comment about Serafe not being allowed to take over the e-bill/LSV permission from Billag and therefore sending paper bills out to start with and then put a post completely off topic?!
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  #259  
Old 17.01.2019, 18:08
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Re: What / who are Serafe?

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In which case it is strange that Billag was still trying to sign people up so late. The last letter they sent me was in late November.
I only got the letter 2 days ago.
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  #260  
Old 17.01.2019, 18:17
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

This thread is finally providing some fun. Everybody talks (posts) past everybody.
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