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  #641  
Old 05.01.2021, 11:43
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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I think it's a bit of our responsibility to try to put ourselves in the shoes of the citizens whose country we have moved in, and try to "live" with the local culture. Or embrace it, whatever floats your boat.
I do understand the cultural reasons behind why Swiss terrestrial TV and radio channels need to be maintained, but I will never be happy about paying 350chf for it and am of course free to speak my mind on a public forum.

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All I can say is that Swiss TV, as a source of entertainment and information must be pretty bad if they have to force everyone to pay to watch it, even if they don't want to.

'20 minutes' is pretty bad as a newspaper but they manage to give it away free with advertising paying for it. That's how easy it is.

The old argument (used on here many times) is that someone needs to pay for the infrastructure. That infrastructure just doesn't exist any more and the price of technology has dropped so much that even a home-user can easily purchase broadcast quality video equipment.

So, where is this money going?
Well, the UK also has a TV license system so it's not unique to Switzerland and there is a lot of controversy over that too. The UK one is cheaper, but of course it has a different level of quality and number of contributors. All the Swiss I have talked to say that local TV is **** and the majority watch/listen to streaming services or foreign channels.

I guess with time, things will change as the older generations pass on and the numbers of viewers of TV and and listeners of radio plummet to such unsustainable levels that they can't either be funded without seriously raising the fees or simply implementing advertising.
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  #642  
Old 05.01.2021, 11:47
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Well yes, why?

The fact that the populace has consistently, and recently, voted to retain the charge seems to mean nothing to you. Your complaint has been heard, discussed and rejected. Continuing to complain about it just sounds a but like a spoilt child.



https://www.serafe.ch/en/distributio...y-broadcaster/
Maybe the women of Switzerland should have just shut up and accepted that only men could vote too after the big majority in the 1959 referendum.

(Yes I know that's far more serious but the principle is the same - being in the minority does not mean you cannot voice your opinion).

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 05.01.2021 at 12:40.
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  #643  
Old 05.01.2021, 11:49
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Yes, because why bother complaining about anything you disagree with, simply because you can afford it?

Nick's secret to success in life... be quiet, bend over, and take it without complaint. After, all why risk an ulcer with all of that "being opinionated and speaking your mind" nonsense?

Don't sweat over the small stuff, pick your fights, chose the hill you wish to die........lot's of popular culture references point at days being 24 hours long and our human energy being limited.
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  #644  
Old 05.01.2021, 11:52
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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The fact that the populace has consistently, and recently, voted to retain the charge seems to mean nothing to you. Your complaint has been heard, discussed and rejected. Continuing to complain about it just sounds a but like a spoilt child.

And, to to use my other argument, they still have wild animals in circuses even though most European countries have banned this.

The Swiss haven't - there haven't (I believe) gained enough signatures to force a vote.
Doesn't mean I have to like the practice though does it?

I suppose continuing to complain about it just sounds a bit like a spoilt child.

TV is entertainment (purchased German documentaries and soaps).
The useful bit - which they obviously should keep - Swiss news, current affairs and local interest programming just doesn't need such a big budget.
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  #645  
Old 05.01.2021, 11:53
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Hi all - I am sure this has been asked already but I couldn't find the post in the forum.
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  #646  
Old 05.01.2021, 12:08
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Nick's secret to success in life... be quiet, bend over, and take it without complaint.

For 350 bucks a year? Yep!
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  #647  
Old 05.01.2021, 12:25
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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I guess with time, things will change as the older generations pass on and the numbers of viewers of TV and and listeners of radio plummet to such unsustainable levels that they can't either be funded without seriously raising the fees or simply implementing advertising.

The thing is, as people get older they become more interested in the sort of stuff broadcast on public TV. The system may survive for quite a while yet.
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  #648  
Old 05.01.2021, 12:30
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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The thing is, as people get older they become more interested in the sort of stuff broadcast on public TV. The system may survive for quite a while yet.
Are you implying the conservative 70+YO were once wayward teenagers? And, that if we're lucky enough we'll become the older voters? The horror!
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  #649  
Old 05.01.2021, 12:37
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

To me what I find strange is that, if you don't have a tv, wifi or a smartphone, but own a nokia 8310 from 2001 you still have to pay the SAME as everyone else, just because your phone from 20 years ago has an FM radio regardless of even you are using it or not.
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  #650  
Old 05.01.2021, 14:29
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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The old argument (used on here many times) is that someone needs to pay for the infrastructure. That infrastructure just doesn't exist any more and the price of technology has dropped so much that even a home-user can easily purchase broadcast quality video equipment.

So, where is this money going?
I'd have thought that it costs a fait bit to connect everybody in Switzerland with fibre optic cable. I don't have it at home yet. Once I've got it, everyone can stop paying their Serafe bills.
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Well, here is a glimmer of good news guys... the price is being reduced starting in 2021 from 365chf to 335chf. https://www.serafe.ch/en/

That almost pays for my vignette.
The vignette for your car with a radio and Bluetooth setup for your mobile phone?
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  #651  
Old 05.01.2021, 14:39
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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That's not related to the change from Billag to Serafe though, is it? Just that they scrapped the Radio-only licence as an irrelevance at around the same time.

Anyway, even under the old rules you should have been paying the full amount. The fact that you are posting here is proof enough that you have equipment capable of TV reception.
A computer alone, even with high speed internet, did not result in the need of a TV license. A radio alone was good enough. A TV license was only needed if you had a subscription/account with an IP-TV provider. Even watching the SRF/TSI/RTS stream online was possible and o.k. with just the radio license.
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  #652  
Old 05.01.2021, 16:50
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Yes, because why bother complaining about anything you disagree with, simply because you can afford it?

Nick's secret to success in life... be quiet, bend over, and take it without complaint. After, all why risk an ulcer with all of that "being opinionated and speaking your mind" nonsense?
How about scaling complaints to the problems, and keep "disgusting" for actual freaking issues.

If this is such an outrage, then either I have completely missed something or this is the only problem the outraged people have. If it's not, I dare not imagine what the reaction is for actually serious problems, that can affect your daily life and its quality...

That's the root of the issue for me. Everyone is pissed off about everything, and you scream the same for Serafe's 1 CHF EXTORTIONATE FEE THAT IN 54 YEARS IS WORTH 20,000 OF TODAY'S MONEY!!!111!!11!, and for far more serious problems.

If all problems are major, and everything is a priority, then NOTHING is either major or a priority.
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  #653  
Old 05.01.2021, 20:25
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

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My main objection to the radio/TV tax is that it is paid to a private company. I'd have no problem with it if I paid it directly to the government as a line item on my tax return.
I really do not understand this argument. It is not paid to SERAFE, SERAFE simply collects it. The Federal Government uses the Cantons to collect its taxes (and the Cantons get a share of theses taxes for their troubles). In this case the Federal Government - for whatever reason - decided to outsource the collection of the licence fees to a private company. At most you can complain that SERAFE gets a profit margin. Adding as a line item to the tax return does not work since it is collected on a household basis.

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So now to my initial question: Can OFCOM force themselves into my property or is it similar to the UK where "they can keep on knocking but they can't come in!"? Is my Internet Service Provider required to provide them information on me?
Yes they can enter your premises:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a109c

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SRF should publish a breakdown of their costs. No doubt there is a small number of TV shows in addition to luxurious offices and inflated salaries that account for a large portion of the CHF 365 charge.
https://gb.srgssr.ch/de/2019/download-center
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  #654  
Old 06.01.2021, 00:33
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

https://gb.srgssr.ch/de/2019/download-center

"Die SRG schliesst das Geschäftsjahr 2019 mit einem Jahresverlust von 22,2 Mio. Franken (Vorjahresgewinn 6,8 Mio. Franken)."


Am i getting this right? They lost 29 million francs this year? They charge nearly every household in the country a franc a day, and still lose money? With coronavirus, when they were likely not spending so much on the production end of things? And when people were home during lockdown consuming more TV with free time, therefore (i would assume) increasing advertising revenues?

My neighbors down the street threw the bill letters away as soon as they started to arrive by post, years ago, and they stopped being sent. They've never heard a peep from serape.
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  #655  
Old 06.01.2021, 07:04
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

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https://gb.srgssr.ch/de/2019/download-center

"Die SRG schliesst das Geschäftsjahr 2019 mit einem Jahresverlust von 22,2 Mio. Franken (Vorjahresgewinn 6,8 Mio. Franken)."


Am i getting this right? They lost 29 million francs this year? They charge nearly every household in the country a franc a day, and still lose money? With coronavirus, when they were likely not spending so much on the production end of things? And when people were home during lockdown consuming more TV with free time, therefore (i would assume) increasing advertising revenues?

My neighbors down the street threw the bill letters away as soon as they started to arrive by post, years ago, and they stopped being sent. They've never heard a peep from serape.
Here's a link to the actual document and not just the downloads center: https://gb.srgssr.ch/fileadmin/dam/p...RG-2019_de.pdf

Translation of the paragraph:

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However, 2019 will also go down in the history of SRG as a year in which the advertising revenues have plummeted. The major international online platforms are not only targeting print advertising, but
also target television. The entire television market is affected
- the private as well as the public. SRG's TV advertising revenues fell
around 25 million francs. The SRG closes its 2019 financial year with a
anticipated and realized loss of 22.2 million francs, that too
Provisions for restructuring measures taken into account. The restructuring measures will be implemented from 2020.
So in 2019 they lost 22.2 million francs. That is baaaadddd and I can only imagine, like all Swiss institutions with long-established "Old Boy Clubs" at the exec level, how many fatcat salaries they have too. I bet the reported loss for 2020 will be similarly bad if not worse.

But hey, as one member here said with such strength, grit and determination... "there's not much we can do about it and you can afford to fund it... so why bother to risk an ulcer thinking or complaining about it?". Right? Surely an admirable principle to apply to all areas of life.

Last edited by Chuff; 06.01.2021 at 07:30.
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  #656  
Old 14.01.2021, 20:12
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Re: Serafe - wifi but that's it

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Why is that under Daily Life and not Telephone/TV section?

Anyway question: checking something else and I saw this under the exemptions.

"Households with persons who receive annual supplementary Old Age, Survivors' and Invalidity (OASI / AHV-IV) insurance benefits from the federal government"

https://www.serafe.ch/en/exemption-f...sic-principle/

Does that mean people receiving a Swiss pension don't have to pay? Because I do, though husband is still working and not at pension age yet.

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 14.01.2021 at 20:23.
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  #657  
Old 14.01.2021, 20:23
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

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Am i getting this right? They lost 29 million francs this year? They charge nearly every household in the country a franc a day, and still lose money?
Although thy can force people to pay Serafe, they cannot force advertisers to pay top dollar, and advertisers have woken up to the fact that TV advertising is no longer as effective and reaching as many people as they used to. So they are raking in less money than budgeted.

SRF mentally still lives in the 1980s, when they had a market share of close to 100%, and people would keep on watching no matter how awful the content.

Now they are slowly waking up to the fact but rather than providing people with a reason to watch, they are resorting to making you pay whether you want to watch or not.
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  #658  
Old 19.01.2021, 13:07
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

Incidentally, I have only ever found reference to the 5,000chf fine relating to the tv license to come into effect when someone opts-out, and is then found to possess a decive capable of receiving tv/radio service.
Seems to imply that if you simply don't pay you would get late fines, but not the actual 5,000 fine.

Out of curiosity, has anyone incurred fines from just not paying or replying to the bills?
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  #659  
Old 19.01.2021, 13:25
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

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Incidentally, I have only ever found reference to the 5,000chf fine relating to the tv license to come into effect when someone opts-out, and is then found to possess a decive capable of receiving tv/radio service.
Seems to imply that if you simply don't pay you would get late fines, but not the actual 5,000 fine.

Out of curiosity, has anyone incurred fines from just not paying or replying to the bills?
Last time I moved, I forgot to pay on time and lost the paper bill. 4-5 months later I received a reminder that I should pay or the issue was sent to debt collection. No fines mentioned, but if the issue went to betriebung I will be included in the debt list with all the consequences.
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  #660  
Old 28.01.2021, 20:55
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Re: TV licence, Serafe in place of Billag

Pardon my naivete, but why does the government have to use a company called Serafe AG to bill this tax?
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