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  #141  
Old 08.01.2019, 12:12
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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The opt-out loophole will not be closed until 2023.

But the way I understand it, you need to receive the bill first and then apply for the opt out.
Yes, even as I wrote that, I knew that someone would point out that it's (kinda*) possible to opt out. Plus there are those on social security. But you know what I mean, virtually every household will be billed -- a far cry from the situation under Billag.


* You have to prove that you're a fully paid-up member of the Luddite Society, and that you live in a cellular/radio block hole.
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  #142  
Old 08.01.2019, 12:58
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Yes, even as I wrote that, I knew that someone would point out that it's (kinda*) possible to opt out. Plus there are those on social security. But you know what I mean, virtually every household will be billed -- a far cry from the situation under Billag.


* You have to prove that you're a fully paid-up member of the Luddite Society, and that you live in a cellular/radio block hole.
Opting out will be quite difficult from my understanding. Having anything with internet, TV or radio is enough to have to pay.

More of a rule that everyone pays and you have to provide the proof for opting out.
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  #143  
Old 08.01.2019, 13:04
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

Got a teilrechnung for Jan only so assume will get the rest in Feb.

Quick question, I always assumed that the Billag was incluced in my Nebenkosten and taken care of by the agency...is that common place to anyones knowledge?
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  #144  
Old 08.01.2019, 13:08
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Got a teilrechnung for Jan only so assume will get the rest in Feb.

Quick question, I always assumed that the Billag was incluced in my Nebenkosten and taken care of by the agency...is that common place to anyones knowledge?
No, in fact I don't think that would ever occur for a long-term tenancy. The Billag "contract" was with the resident, not the landlord. But anyway, that's history now.
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  #145  
Old 08.01.2019, 13:36
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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I think hardly anybody pays by Einzahlungsschein at the post office any more. So need to worry about some billing or handling bottleneck there. And in business it's all about working capital, so the sooner you get people to pay, the more working capital you have in hand. A succesful Inkasso company would get the punters to pay up as early as possible while themselves handing the money over to SRF & friends as late as possible.
As Serafe is only for collecting the "Billag-money" (it will take decades to get that name out of our heads ), they can not invest/play/do business with the money. So while your theory is generally correct, it does not apply here.

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Serafe's website says that they randomly assign households to one of twelve groups. The first group is invoiced annually in January, the second in February, etc.

If you're in Group 1, you'll receive a bill for CHF 365 in January 2019 to cover 2019. Your next bill will arrive in January 2020, to cover the fee to the end of 2020.

If you're in Group 2, you'll receive a bill for CHF 365/12 in January 2019 to cover the fee for January 2019. Then you'll receive a bill in February, for the fee to the end of January 2020. Your next bill will arrive in February 2020, for the fee up to the end of January 2021.

If you're in Group 3, you'll receive a bill for CHF (365/12)*2 in January 2019 to cover the fee for January and February 2019. Then you'll receive a bill in March, for the fee to the end of February 2020. Your next bill will arrive in March 2020, for the fee up to the end of February 2021.

And so on...

Note, you can opt to pay the fee quarterly, without additional charge if you do it electronically. If you ask for a hard copy invoice, you'll pay an extra CHF 2.00 per quarter.
And so on? I'm a June payer and you just left me hanging?

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No, in fact I don't think that would ever occur for a long-term tenancy. The Billag "contract" was with the resident, not the landlord. But anyway, that's history now.
Well, it's not history, it's still with the resident. Imagine it were with the landlord, we could devide Fr. 365.00 by 6 where I live.

As to what's in the rent: For example payments to UPC cablecom (they charge all kinds of fees, by the time you actually are using their internet or watch TV via their cable you've been stripped ).
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  #146  
Old 08.01.2019, 14:28
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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And so on? I'm a June payer and you just left me hanging?
Lol. Here's the simple formula to work out when to expect your annual bill of CHF 365:

1. Take the amount invoiced to you by Serafe this month.
2. If it's CHF 365, you will be invoiced in January every year. (All annual invoices are for the year in advance.)
3. If it's less than CHF 365, divide it by 30.416666666667 (approximately ), then add 1. The result is the month of the year in which you will be billed your annual fee.
4. If it's more than CHF 365, you probably live in a nursing home. Feign Alzheimer's and the problem will go away. (There's something to look forward to: the nursing home pays a single fee of 730 p.a.; no more household Serafe fee to pay!)

Of course, if you can read the part of the invoice that mentions the period covered by the partial year's fee, you could simply add one month to the last one noted as the end of the current billing period. But that would require you to have encyclopaedic knowledge of the order of the months. )

It looks like you managed to figure out when your annual bill will arrive, even without my helpful explainer!

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Well, it's not history, it's still with the resident. Imagine it were with the landlord, we could devide Fr. 365.00 by 6 where I live.
I was referring to Billag and its billing practices, as you know... Billag is now history. PTL.
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  #147  
Old 08.01.2019, 15:19
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Quick question, I always assumed that the Billag was incluced in my Nebenkosten and taken care of by the agency...is that common place to anyones knowledge?
No. But it's not uncommon to include the cost for the signal provider (correct term?), especially with cable.
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Effectively, that's exactly what Serafe is doing -- eventually. Every household will be billed in January 2019 for a portion of the year, with another invoice coming later in the year for most (11/12) of all households. See "Staggered invoicing" here.
I wonder why they did it that way. They could simply bill for the full calendar year at different months instead and avoid the double billing.
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  #148  
Old 08.01.2019, 15:38
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Lol. Here's the simple formula to work out when to expect your annual bill of CHF 365: .......
See, NOW I feel taken care of. I just hate it when people are given all the attention and details and when it comes to me just being told "you'll figure it out".

You're either still on holidays or working for Serafe. I was already flabbergasted by the detailed first post.
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  #149  
Old 08.01.2019, 18:40
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

365 per year is actually very reasonable.
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  #150  
Old 09.01.2019, 07:38
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Looks like im in Group 1 (got bill today). But the bill is a "Teilrechnung" which covers Jan-Sep. 2019 for 273.75.-
Me too, bill was waiting for me yesterday :-(
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  #151  
Old 09.01.2019, 09:58
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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As to what's in the rent: For example payments to UPC cablecom (they charge all kinds of fees, by the time you actually are using their internet or watch TV via their cable you've been stripped ).
That's been taken out of the Nebenkosten more than a couple of months ago, afaik.
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  #152  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:42
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Opting out will be quite difficult from my understanding. Having anything with internet, TV or radio is enough to have to pay.

More of a rule that everyone pays and you have to provide the proof for opting out.
My understanding is that you don't need to provide any proof, but Bakom reserves the right to come and inspect your appartment.

I guess that means within the framework of fair process, meaning they can't come inside without a search warrant, so in other words they will be clocking up costs far in excess of the money they're not getting anyway, so will probably only go down that road if they think they have reasonable chances of actually finding evidence. Billag very rarely actually went down that road, which is why during the finally years they never managed to push their market share beyond the glass celing..

If they really want to play tough, I can see a whole new avenue opening up for wasting bakom's time and money.
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  #153  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:50
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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... they can't come inside without a search warrant...
Is that correct? From the FAQs on the radio and television fee on the Federal Office of Communications (OFCOM) website:

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Q: Is OFCOM allowed to enter the premises of my household?
A: Yes. OFCOM may enter the premises of an exempted household to check whether the conditions for Opting-out are met.
It's not clear whether OFCOM is allowed entry only with a warrant, or generally, but I wouldn't chance it...
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  #154  
Old 09.01.2019, 10:59
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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Is that correct? From the FAQs on the radio and television fee on the Federal Office of Communications (OFCOM) website:



It's not clear whether OFCOM is allowed entry only with a warrant, or generally, but I wouldn't chance it...
I very much doubt that ofcom has more power than the police when it comes to searching appartments.

But even in the unlikely case that they do, my argumenmt still stands. How much is it going to cost them to come over to my appartment, get a locksmith to pick the lock, compensate me for replacing my lock, compensate me for other stuff they might break, only to find I don't have any devices.

We're talking about minimum 2K in costs per raid here. In other words, that's the annual contribution of six of their custzomers down the drain in half an hour. If only one in six Swiss household would opt out, we would have cost neutrality and no money left for SRF. If Ofcom wants to play that game, let them bring it on.

But somehow I don't think they will.
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  #155  
Old 09.01.2019, 11:33
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

Right to access doesn't mean they can do so at any time, or force entry at their own decision. They're in the same position as your landlord.

You're obligated to let them in, at a convenient time and date. Failing that they will have to have a court issue a search warrant (and quite probably get one), though I would find that excessive, especially if they called a key service to force the door open.
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... compensate me for replacing my lock, compensate me for other stuff they might break, ...
What makes you think you're owed compensation? In this scenario you intentionally created the situation, as long as they follow due procedure I doubt you'd get more than a sympathetic "Nope, it's your fault".
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  #156  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:00
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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You're obligated to let them in, at a convenient time and date. Failing that they will have to have a court issue a search warrant (and quite probably get one), though I would find that excessive, especially if they called a key service to force the door open.
If they announce the date and time of their visit, doesn't that remove the surprise factor?

If they don't, they can't expect anybody to be at home.
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  #157  
Old 09.01.2019, 12:04
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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What makes you think you're owed compensation? In this scenario you intentionally created the situation, as long as they follow due procedure I doubt you'd get more than a sympathetic "Nope, it's your fault".
So you think that opting out of a TV charge is the same as intentionally creating a situation that justifies having your door broken on a regular basis?
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  #158  
Old 09.01.2019, 14:08
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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That's been taken out of the Nebenkosten more than a couple of months ago, afaik.
Only if you chose to go with upc directly (which means had to make new contracts with ups and you're now paying a higher price which of course is - badly - hidden in non-existing extra features).

In fact, the fee went up for the landlord as well quite a while ago (a year maybe?).
Our's decided then not to the raise on to us. Not worthe the hassle I guess as we're all watching the fiberglass being fit into the roads around here = we will all run from upc soon.
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  #159  
Old 09.01.2019, 14:19
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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In fact, the fee went up for the landlord as well quite a while ago (a year maybe?).
Every year.
https://www.watson.ch/digital/schwei...llag-gebuehren

It was CHF 23.20 in 2012, now it is a whooping CHF 39.90

Thanks to fiber to the home this is a thing of the past since 2012
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Old 09.01.2019, 14:21
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Re: Bye bye Billag [Welcome our new overlord Serafe]

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My understanding is that you don't need to provide any proof, but Bakom reserves the right to come and inspect your appartment.

I guess that means within the framework of fair process, meaning they can't come inside without a search warrant, so in other words they will be clocking up costs far in excess of the money they're not getting anyway, so will probably only go down that road if they think they have reasonable chances of actually finding evidence. Billag very rarely actually went down that road, which is why during the finally years they never managed to push their market share beyond the glass celing..

If they really want to play tough, I can see a whole new avenue opening up for wasting bakom's time and money.
The Ex-Billag fee is a general fee.
If you have a reason for exception you must prove it. (The "Beweislast" is on your side).
To do that - if they don't believe you - you would have to let them in.
Simple.
Ohterwise you will simply be charged as anyone else, reminded and "betrieben". Every year if necessary. LOL.

Isn't it time to play a new game?? Playing "I refuse to pay Billag" must feel a bit like playing "Bertie the Brain"
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