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Old 21.07.2017, 10:12
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Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

I know a bit of a loaded question with some conspiracy theory thrown in for good measure but 'tis Friday afterall!

So here is my observation, hypothesis and subsequent conclusion...

Ever since I bought my first iPhone back in 2009 I regularly backed up my iPhone through iTunes on my laptop. Somewhere down the line (around two years ago) I thought actually the backup should really be encrypted in case my laptop ever gets stolen etc and so I just put a password in when I backed it up before I went on holiday (the thought here is to salvage as much as possible if I lose my phone / drop it in water while on holiday).

Holiday went all well and phone survived and many months later I backed up the phone again and it later dawned on me that I don't actually remember the password that I used to back up the phone. This should be no problem I'll just make a new backup with a new password, I don't really need the old backup as I have everything on the phone... WRONG! You cannot do that!

So after trying all sorts of password combinations I could think of and even went and downloaded a piece of software that tries a brute force attack to find the password, which failed due to IOS 10 making the brute force attack very slow, the only feasible way I thought was to back up the phone on iCloud, wipe the phone completely then restore from the iCloud backup. So I went and bought a bit of iCloud storage and backed it up, count to three and tap reset phone... The phone took nearly a day afterwards to restore most things with the only thing missing being apps that are no longer on the app store, and which I also cleaned out from the app directory on the laptop so no chance of recovery.

Well at least the newly restored phone can now be backed up and I can specify a new password... Erm WRONG again!

Yep restoring the iPhone from an iCloud backup which doesn't require a password doesn't change anything on the iTunes side as it will still require the password that was used to encrypt the first encrypted backup.

Now I can either set up the phone as new and redownload the apps individually and restore the app data in a seperate step which might or might not work or I can just carry one paying Apple for the iCloud storage until they do something about it or I migrate over to Android!

I don't think Apple will do anything about this unless forced to do it and specially as a lot of people I imagine are in a similar position as I am. I'm actually starting to like the idea of having the phone backed up this way but I would just like to have a bit of choice and I really think it's pretty bad user experience and backup design mechanism that I can no longer backup my own phone with a fresh password once I forget the old one. I am no security expert but surely this is something feasible. So assuming that it is feasible... Why does Apple not do something about it? Ta-da!

Thoughts?
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Old 21.07.2017, 10:46
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

Buy an android phone!

It's not the first time I have the impression apple-users are selling their souls.
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:00
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

I was always under the impression that Apple was trying to force people to pay for everything, all the time, on a 6 mos product cycle.

I mean, it's a business model but I can't understand why people are willing to pay so much for things that are so obviously designed for a very closed ecosystem with short-cycle planned obsolescence.
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:05
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Buy an android phone!

It's not the first time I have the impression apple-users are selling their souls.
I'm pretty certain my next phone will not be an Apple one. But the one I got now does a pretty good job so no need to jump ship just yet...

I don't tend to buy the latest phone everytime they release one so not a complete sheep. I had the original 2G phone briefly then the 3GS which I used till I bought the 6 Plus a few years back. I don't see me buying another until iPhone 8 or 9 comes along. At that point I plan to compare to Android alternatives.

I'm pretty sure other Android phones have their own issues too but the variety and the flexibility is very attractive, I was quite impressed by some of the handsets from Huawei (Mate 9 and P10) and saw a friend's phone from Google which also seemed pretty good.

I guess the competition is catching up if not over taking Apple so when closet fans like me start considering a switch it is soon time to short Apple stock!
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:10
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

Met a woman the other day, I think her name was Sarah Connor, anyways, she kept babbling on incoherently about Apple being owned by some silent company called Skynet, never heard of them TBH...she kept saying over and over again "don't let them take over!!" then there was some sort of EMP in the bar and she was gone...weird.
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:16
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Met a woman the other day, I think her name was Sarah Connor, anyways, she kept babbling on incoherently about Apple being owned by some silent company called Skynet, never heard of them TBH...she kept saying over and over again "don't let them take over!!" then there was some sort of EMP in the bar and she was gone...weird.
Reminds me of one of my all time favourite films... oh wait! I'll be back!
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:19
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

To answer your title question: Yes, of course they are. There's a clue in the fact that is always been impossible to download apps onto an iphone without first giving them a credit card number.

Here's the relevant parts of your post

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iPhone iPhone
iTunes
IOS 10
iCloud
iCloud
iCloud
iPhone
iCloud
iTunes
paying Apple
iCloud
See what I did there?

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migrate over to Android!

Why does Apple not do something about it? Ta-da!

Thoughts?
Why haven't you already done what you clearly realise you should?
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Old 21.07.2017, 11:36
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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I guess the competition is catching up if not over taking Apple so when closet fans like me start considering a switch it is soon time to short Apple stock!
As someone with both handsets (iphone 7 plus from work, galaxy s7 edge personal), android has overtaken apple by quite a longshot.

The iOs UI interface feels quite "old" by comparison...
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Old 21.07.2017, 12:01
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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To answer your title question: Yes, of course they are. There's a clue in the fact that is always been impossible to download apps onto an iphone without first giving them a credit card number.
To be fair to them they do allow vouchers instead of CC details but that's a minor detail. And of course with the Play Store you can skip CC entry. I also think that they use the credit card to allow access to the regional stores as some of the apps are not globally available.


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Why haven't you already done what you clearly realise you should?
I am guilty of complacency and not wanting to deal with the hassle of migrating my data and apps over to an Android phone. Besides some apps (not many) I paid for and I think I have to buy again because they were bought through iTunes and not google's Play Store.

I do have a dual-SIM Samsung that I do use occasionaly while on holiday but it is old and never considered migrating to that.

Besides I really don't think my decision was irrational at all, my first iPhone was really the 3GS which I got at a time when the competition was weak to non-existant and the upgrade to the iPhone 6 Plus at the time was reasonable when considering the competition and the product offering in terms of the screen size and user interface at the time. But I'm sure I didn't look hard enough as a simple upgrade was much more convenient.

Upgrading now however would be something else and the switch to an Android phone might actually be worth the hassle of migration.

Granted if I was buying my first smart phone the decision is very easy.
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Old 21.07.2017, 12:12
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Why haven't you already done what you clearly realise you should?
Because he's already been locked-in!
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Old 21.07.2017, 12:23
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

Isn't there a "iphone-shop" that could help you to "unlock" that password?
After all, if you sell this phone, the next owner will also not be able to save his data.
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:29
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

Walk into the Apple store, you personalised your iPhone by setting up that password for your account which is tied to your phone, you cannot simply fix this, since every thief would be able to also easily fix this in such case.

So the Phone actually does what you asked it to do.
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:32
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Isn't there a "iphone-shop" that could help you to "unlock" that password?
After all, if you sell this phone, the next owner will also not be able to save his data.
You're confusing phone and data.

If you sell your phone, you wipe the phone, and the new user sets it up as new (with their existing password for their backup or a new password).

The password locks the data on the backup, not the phone.

Easy solution would be to wipe the phone and set up as a new phone. Yes, you lose all the apps/data, but nothing a bit of planning won't solve (backup pictures and contacts to third party apps, re download all apps...

For contacts, easiest way to backup is add an outlook.com account, sync all your contacts there...
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:40
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Now I can either set up the phone as new and redownload the apps individually and restore the app data in a seperate step which might or might not work or I can just carry one paying Apple for the iCloud storage until they do something about it or I migrate over to Android!
The iCloud free allocation should be enough to backup your phone. If you run out of space simply delete old backup... Both my wife and son do this.

BTW, if you use a Mac check if the backup password is stored in KeyChain.

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To answer your title question: Yes, of course they are. There's a clue in the fact that is always been impossible to download apps onto an iphone without first giving them a credit card number.
Not the case, my daughter has no credit card and she downloads free apps all the time.
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:45
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

So you forgetting your password is somehow Apple's fault?
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:51
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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So you forgetting your password is somehow Apple's fault?
and Brexit
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:53
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

Say what you will about Apple, one thing they do take seriously is your privacy particularly when compared to Google
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Old 21.07.2017, 13:56
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Say what you will about Apple, one thing they do take seriously is your privacy particularly when compared to Google
Just don't look into the 2014 patriot act disclosures...
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Old 21.07.2017, 14:00
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

iCloud is slowly taking shape and has been a mess so far as they try and integrate all of their services and devices into it. There are bound to be problems.

You get 5GB free, but once to you start backing up phones, laptops, desktops, TV etc and start synchronising the apps, libraries and services you will of course run out of cloud space.

You can buy 50GB for 1 CHF a month, which really isn't extortionate.

If you need temp space to sort your backups and cloud content out, upgrade for one month, clean up your backups and think about how you want to use the iCloud - in other words be selective about what you store in the cloud and if you can keep it under 5GB then cancel your 50GB upgrade, which costs you 1 CHF a month. You can buy a Mars bar instead.
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Old 21.07.2017, 14:04
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Re: Is Apple trying to force people to pay for iCloud storage?

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Just don't look into the 2014 patriot act disclosures...
sure BUT read the 2 privacy policies, specifically the chapter on how each company uses your private data

Remember
- Google is an advertising company (just like Facebook)
- Apple is a hardware/software company

different business/revenue models; different ways to exploit data
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