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  #81  
Old 30.08.2017, 11:26
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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What I dont understand is why there is a fee for Radio, a fee for Television and then a fee for Radio and Television. Seems really stupid to me, just have one reasonable connected everything fee. But they should really just call it what it is, a "tax", and not a "if you pay you're getting some really high quality Swiss programming". Thats the bit I resent, I very rarely watch Swiss programming and then its usually the weather, but mostly because it is rather crap. I never resented paying the TV license fee in the UK, mostly because I appreciate a lot of the BBC's efforts.
What is ridiculous about Billag is that they not only expect people to opt in and pay it, but they also get money from advertising and sponsorship. At least in the UK you don't get the advertising on the BBC.
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  #82  
Old 30.08.2017, 11:47
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

"If you have more than one household you must pay twice. "

Art 69a 3a seems to contradict this point - "Für die Abgabe eines Haushalts haften jene volljährigen Personen solidarisch:a.für die der Haushalt ihr Hauptwohnsitz ist" - People for whom the household is their main residence are liable to pay the tax.

In this case it seems to me that if you have more than one household, you are not obliged to pay the tax in your second household.
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  #83  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:09
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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"If you have more than one household you must pay twice. "

Art 69a 3a seems to contradict this point - "Für die Abgabe eines Haushalts haften jene volljährigen Personen solidarisch:a.für die der Haushalt ihr Hauptwohnsitz ist" - People for whom the household is their main residence are liable to pay the tax.

In this case it seems to me that if you have more than one household, you are not obliged to pay the tax in your second household.
Oh, interesting. So no longer paying extra for holiday homes and second homes. Very social and biblical from the SP for supporting this new scheme: Does who have will be given.

PS: You can switch the language of the law at the very top right.
Or you change the /de/ in the URL to /en/
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  #84  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:13
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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I very rarely watch Swiss programming and then its usually the weather, but mostly because it is rather crap.
I mostly watch Swiss TV, and it's not crap, especially sports coverage.

Swiss mot GP coverage is by far the best of any country.

Tom
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  #85  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:26
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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What is ridiculous about Billag is that they not only expect people to opt in and pay it, but they also get money from advertising and sponsorship. At least in the UK you don't get the advertising on the BBC.
Where and how does the Billag rise money through advertisement and sponsorship

Or are you talking about SRG SSR which gets some (o.k. a very substantial part of around 90%) of the money from BAKOM/OFCOM which is collect on behalf of BAKOM/OFCO by Billag?

Of course one could argue that the BAKOM/OFCOM should give SRG SSR less of the collected money as they also have revenue through advertising and sponsorship. BAKOM/OFCOM could use the money for other Radio/TV related stuff (100% DAB and DVB coverage for example) or request the Federal Council to lower the licenses fees.
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  #86  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:28
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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You do not pay for Swiss radio or Swiss TV, you pay for the reception of any TV or radio station. Form anywhere on this planet and beyond. Nobody says you get good programming, they only say that you are allowed to watch any TV station (if you have TV license) or regular radio station (if you have a Radio license). The license does not give you any entitlement to any Swiss program nor quality.
Legally speaking, you are spot on.

But the pro Billag folks, and even Billag itself are pushing out the message that if the license fee is abolished, quality Swiss programming will also disappear.

They are thus maybe not directly saying but strongly implying that Billag money is for quality programing.

Another example of the befuddlement of different issues that create Bilag's web of deceit.
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  #87  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:35
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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Of course one could argue that the BAKOM/OFCOM should give SRG SSR less of the collected money as they also have revenue through advertising and sponsorship. BAKOM/OFCOM could use the money for other Radio/TV related stuff (100% DAB and DVB coverage for example) or request the Federal Council to lower the licenses fees.
This.

What SRG needs is a proper audit. They claim they are indspensible because they inform people of importnt issues, and having a well informed populace is necessary for the workings of a direct democracy.

Granted, there is some truth in that argument. But then Billag money should be spent only on such programing and not on general entertainment garbage, which should be financed entirely through advertising or other means. An audit should prove that the money is being spent only on that for what it is intended.
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  #88  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:38
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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But the pro Billag folks, and even Billag itself are pushing out the message that if the license fee is abolished, quality Swiss programming will also disappear.
Can you link to a source which supports that? Because Billag couldn't care less as the collection contract is open for renewal every ~5-10 years. As we know Billag lost the last bid and Serafe will be our new Overlord at least till the end of 2025. https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/de/...-id-65954.html or sooner in case the abolishing initative passes https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis454.html.
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Old 30.08.2017, 12:40
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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Can you link to a source which supports that? Because Billag couldn't care less as the collection contract is open for renewal every ~10 years. As we know Billag lost the last bid and Serafe will be our new Overlord at least till the end of 2025. https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/de/...-id-65954.html
Next time they come to your door, just ask them.

So far every single Bilag person I've talked to, and this must be at least a dozen over the years, has sold me this yarn.

So either they all live under the same delusion, or its part of their training.

Hey, am I the only one out here who's asking them tough questions?
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Old 30.08.2017, 12:43
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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Next time they come to your door, just ask them.
I am a law abiding citizen Nobody knocks on my door.
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  #91  
Old 30.08.2017, 12:53
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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I am a law abiding citizen Nobody knocks on my door.
I am not only law abiding but also seeking to contribute to the well being of society both through learning and by educating others.

I thus welcome exchanges of view with people who come to my door. I am concerned that if i payed they would stop coming.
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  #92  
Old 31.08.2017, 14:54
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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I mostly watch Swiss TV, and it's not crap, especially sports coverage.

Swiss mot GP coverage is by far the best of any country.

Tom
Really, better then then the UK? Not that I watch motGP or F1 however they take all the fun out of Eurovision and take it seriously. *I'll get my coat*.
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  #93  
Old 31.08.2017, 17:43
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

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sooner in case the abolishing initative passes https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/vi/vis454.html.
It's a shame it is taking so long to get this one through. You would have thought that someone could have started it 10 or 15 years ago... which could have avoided the Serafe complication entirely.
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  #94  
Old 31.08.2017, 18:33
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Re: Billag - how did they find out about me?

The decision tree is (relatively) simple (if you leave out all the grey areas;-):

Should
(1) concession holders (for TV/Radio rights) be obliged to fulfill the tasks listed in Art. 93 Constitution ("Radio and television shall contribute to education and cultural development, to the free shaping of opinion and to entertainment. They shall take account of the particularities of the country and the needs of the Cantons. They shall present events accurately and allow a diversity of opinions to be expressed appropriately.", https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...dex.html#a93); or
(2) should TV/Radio operators be totally free in their programming.

If (1): Should
(1.1) TV/Radio operators receive compensation for fulfilling such tasks ("Konzession mit Leistungsauftrag und Gebührenanteil"); or
(1.2) not.

If (1.1): Should such compensation:
(1.1.1) be funded by a charge ("Gebühr"); or
(1.1.2) by general taxes.

If you end up with (1.1.1) ultimately the discussion revolves around how the charge is calculated and who should pay. Personally, I have preference for the charge approach since I consider this more transparent then simply funding via the general taxes.

In the days of allegations of "fake news" in the US, there is something to be said for requiring TV and radio stations to "present events accurately and allow a diversity of opinions to be expressed appropriately"...

Whether you achieve this with funding, i.e. the carrot, or whether you can achieve this with the stick (revocation of a concession) is a whole other discussion.
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