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-   -   Why does Amazon shun Switzerland? (https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/278060-why-does-amazon-shun-switzerland.html)

California Dreamer 16.01.2018 16:54

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2897585)
for a short while, all the Amazon Prime stuff was available with 2-day delivery to Switzerland. Now it seems to have disappeared again. Looks like someone at Amazon pressed the button a bit too early :-)

What's with this premature button pushing going on lately?

curley 16.01.2018 17:35

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2897726)
Free deilivery
Free VOD (movies, series, etc)
Free ebooks

and probably more.

Free ebooks? :eek: Where is the link to that info?

A bit hard to believe. Amazon would be in the minus with me in no time and the authors wouldn't be please either.

DL21 16.01.2018 17:38

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2896684)
That happened to us recently. I didn't realise our doorbell was broken.

at least they tried. with me they routinely turn up with the yellow slip and no package after having already emailed me to say i need to pick up the package. maybe some kind of justification to the head office that they need to keep the post office open?

dawiz 16.01.2018 19:52

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
most stuff seems to be back online for delivery to Switzerland.

3Wishes 16.01.2018 20:53

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 2897684)
Amazon prime is a type of membership, isn't it?
But why would I want to pay a monthly membership fee to a shop?

Think of it as paying for all your shipping costs up front. If you shop on Amazon all the time and/or use their subscribe and save program where things are shipped at regular intervals, then it can be worthwhile. Prime can be shared among family members (we share) so then the savings really add up.

If you don't have prime, you normally need to purchase at least $25 worth of items in order to qualify for free shipping. I find it so convenient to be able to log on and order one small item like a pair of leggings, and not pay an additional shipping charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 2897836)
Free ebooks? :eek: Where is the link to that info?

A bit hard to believe. Amazon would be in the minus with me in no time and the authors wouldn't be please either.

Many books that are now in the public domain are totally free. Some are free on promo. Others are part of Amazon's Kindle Unlimited program, which seems like a library. You can have 10 books from a selection of titles checked out at one time.

dawiz 08.02.2018 11:39

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
The Swiss Post + Amazon partnership apparently didn't pan out. Oh well - I always thought that Bilanz article was somewhat fishy.

curley 08.02.2018 13:07

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2908298)
The Swiss Post + Amazon partnership apparently didn't pan out. Oh well - I always thought that Bilanz article was somewhat fishy.

No surprise there. The Swiss Post is a lone wolf, made up by many lone wolfs.
Every time management makes a new deal, the employees ruin it by offering passive resistance. Latest example: Kleidersammlung (old clothes collection).
"All February the post will take it along". Great. But not happening. He stared right past it (that was actually quite an achievement). So I put it in his path the next day, almost stumbling over it, it was hard to ignore :msnnerd:

gdub 08.02.2018 13:45

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
That's really a pity that the entire Amazon selection won't be available anytime soon. The topic of this thread shoudn't be Why does Amazon shun Switzerland, rather, why does Switzerland hate Amazon?

gdub 08.02.2018 13:51

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2908298)
The Swiss Post + Amazon partnership apparently didn't pan out. Oh well - I always thought that Bilanz article was somewhat fishy.

Where did you hear about this?

MDSwissMountains 08.02.2018 15:40

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Amazon do ship to Switzerland. I have a UK account and it seems that if Amazon stock the item themselves they will ship it and rebate 20% vat. Happy shopping.

Dack Rambo 08.02.2018 17:05

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
I have had problems with articles delivered (or not) by DHL when ordering from amazon.de . They seem to have a hard time getting in to my building despite the fact that the swiss post never do.

dawiz 12.02.2018 10:20

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gdub (Post 2908355)
Where did you hear about this?

About the deal or about it not happening? Well considering the fact that it's now mid-February and that this was allegedly supposed to happen in December, it's safe to assume that it didn't happen. Apart from that: only Bilanz reported on it and it didn't sound like they actually asked Amazon for confirmation.

AthanasiosGR 12.02.2018 14:26

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MDSwissMountains (Post 2908429)
Amazon do ship to Switzerland. I have a UK account and it seems that if Amazon stock the item themselves they will ship it and rebate 20% vat. Happy shopping.

i think this applies only to certain items (e.g. books), but most items cannot be delivered to Switzerland.

i usually check for electronics that i cannot find anywhere in toppreise, and most of them cannot be delivered here

aSwissInTheUS 12.02.2018 14:37

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AthanasiosGR (Post 2909538)
i think this applies only to certain items (e.g. books), but most items cannot be delivered to Switzerland.

i usually check for electronics that i cannot find anywhere in toppreise, and most of them cannot be delivered here

Most of the time such items are not sold or shipped by Amazon but by a third party Market Place dealer from their own location. But sometimes it is from Amazon and can still not be shipped, strangely sometimes a similar but not the same item can be shipped. Like screwdriver No. 3 cannot be shipped, but No. 4 and 2. :confused:

JakubB 31.10.2018 20:39

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Soon 2018 will end and still no Amazon Prime service in CH...Who wants to bet it won't happen in 2019 either? ;]

dawiz 01.11.2018 07:58

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JakubB (Post 3008201)
Soon 2018 will end and still no Amazon Prime service in CH...Who wants to bet it won't happen in 2019 either? ;]

They're not coming. Switzerland changed the VAT laws earlier this year to specifically make sure they won't, so the Post deal fizzled out. According to the Post boss they'll have some limited, non-exclusive cooperation with Amazon in terms of customs declaration, but the whole next day delivery and full access to all items for Swiss customers will not happen.

So while we'll be seeing more products available for Swiss Post delivery towards the end of this year (when it's not longer possible to import packages with a 65 Fr. tax-free allowance), Amazon Prime will not be available and neither will the Echo devices as a consequence. Thanks to Bern and their protectionism.

In other news, Galaxus have just announced that they're now offering 55'000 products within the EU :-)

aSwissInTheUS 01.11.2018 08:50

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 3008284)
They're not coming. Switzerland changed the VAT laws earlier this year to specifically make sure they won't, so the Post deal fizzled out.

:confused: :rolleyes:
You mean the change that foreign based companies, which send goods worth more than CHF 100k to Swiss Customers is subject to Swiss VAT?
That change was published 30 September 2016! One hundred days after that it was known that the change will come on 1 January 2018.

The law change hugely favors a big company like Amazon. It makes pricing and billing much simpler. https://www.handelszeitung.ch/untern...r-detailhandel

Finally, the Post-Amazon deal was announced end of 2017.
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtsch...story/27406194
and it was later mentioned that Post deal with 24 h delvier was driven by the law change
https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/st...wehrt-12912055

So what are the missing factors and variables?
Although the VAT law has changed 1 January 2018, the technicalities and finer details which are regulated in the VAT ordinance where not ready till 15 August 2018. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/official.../2018/3143.pdf ! Means the law change only comes fully in force on 1 January 2019. Could be that Amazon and Post expected that the full regulation would be available much sooner. Which is possible as ordinances unlike acts can be changed quite easily.

According this article from 7 Septemper 2019 that Post and Amazon are still in a testing phase for 24h delivery
https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/wirts...azon-133094867

PS: Swiss law changes most often not sudden there. In case of an changed or new act there is always a cool of period of at least 100 days between announcement and coming into force. During this period the people can cast there veto and request a poplar vote by gathering 50k signatures.

Kittster 01.11.2018 11:18

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 2908339)
No surprise there. The Swiss Post is a lone wolf, made up by many lone wolfs.
Every time management makes a new deal, the employees ruin it by offering passive resistance. Latest example: Kleidersammlung (old clothes collection).
"All February the post will take it along". Great. But not happening. He stared right past it (that was actually quite an achievement). So I put it in his path the next day, almost stumbling over it, it was hard to ignore :msnnerd:

That is what happens when you treat your employees badly, they have zero incentive to work harder for you and the time demands on delivery staff are already pretty tough. A postman has precisely 90 seconds allocated for each parcel delivery. They used to have time to deliver the post to the front doors of elderly folk and often have a quick chat, especially appreciated by those with mobility issues. This often meant they would get a gift at Christmas from the customers who were happy with the service. It was also a human interaction for isolated seniors and served to make sure they were ok, if there was no response, the postman would maybe even go back later to make sure the person was ok. All that is not possible anymore, little cost savings that have unexpected ripple effects.

marton 01.11.2018 12:48

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3008305)
:confused: :rolleyes:
You mean the change that foreign based companies, which send goods worth more than CHF 100k to Swiss Customers is subject to Swiss VAT?
That change was published 30 September 2016! One hundred days after that it was known that the change will come on 1 January 2018.

The law change hugely favors a big company like Amazon. It makes pricing and billing much simpler. https://www.handelszeitung.ch/untern...r-detailhandel

Finally, the Post-Amazon deal was announced end of 2017.
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtsch...story/27406194
and it was later mentioned that Post deal with 24 h delvier was driven by the law change
https://www.20min.ch/finance/news/st...wehrt-12912055

So what are the missing factors and variables?
Although the VAT law has changed 1 January 2018, the technicalities and finer details which are regulated in the VAT ordinance where not ready till 15 August 2018. https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/official.../2018/3143.pdf ! Means the law change only comes fully in force on 1 January 2019. Could be that Amazon and Post expected that the full regulation would be available much sooner. Which is possible as ordinances unlike acts can be changed quite easily.

According this article from 7 Septemper 2019 that Post and Amazon are still in a testing phase for 24h delivery
https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/wirts...azon-133094867

PS: Swiss law changes most often not sudden there. In case of an changed or new act there is always a cool of period of at least 100 days between announcement and coming into force. During this period the people can cast there veto and request a poplar vote by gathering 50k signatures.

Thanks for this useful information.

I am curious to know how this will work in practice?
One possibility would be that foreign VAT registered companies attach a VAT invoice to the outside of the parcel but I did not find anything that defines the process?
If they put an invoice inside the parcel like today it would create a lot of work for the Customs who would have to check every parcel to separate between foreign VAT registered companies and non registered?

Presumably for foreign companies too small to VAT register they follow the existing system with no VAT charges under CHF 5?

aSwissInTheUS 01.11.2018 13:42

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3008395)
I am curious to know how this will work in practice?

Did you read the change to the ordinance?https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/official.../2018/3143.pdf
Not available in English but you can change the /de/ in the URL to /fr/ or /it/ to get an French or Italain version respectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3008395)
One possibility would be that foreign VAT registered companies attach a VAT invoice to the outside of the parcel but I did not find anything that defines the process?

The sending company has to look that import process is done and VAT is paid for the imports. This is a shift in responsibility. In the old system it was normally the receiver which was responsible. This could mean that the sender must send an electronic declaration via the shipping provider, like when stuff is shipped on a truck. Or as it is done today with DHL, FedEx, UPS when the sender bears the import costs (Like when you use the eBay Global Shipping Program).

Thus the need to have a tight and standardized connection to exchange data between Amazon and the shipping provider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3008395)
If they put an invoice inside the parcel like today it would create a lot of work for the Customs who would have to check every parcel to separate between foreign VAT registered companies and non registered?

No work for customs as customs outsourced this process a long time ago to Post, DHL, FedEx, etc. The reason they can and will charge the processing fee for imports. Customs does only spot checks.
Putting an invoice in the parcel is also not enough today. Sender must put a from CN22 or CN23 on the parcel if shipped by normal post route, or the customs declarations prescribed by your shipping provider! For ex. with DHL you can do it all digital http://www.dhl.com/en/express/custom...ess_trade.html

Amazon had already previously deals with shipping providers which considerably lowered the processing fees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 3008395)
Presumably for foreign companies too small to VAT register they follow the existing system with no VAT charges under CHF 5?

Correct. For shipments from companies with a turnover of less than 100k the CHF 5 limit still exists.

Also for duty the CHF 5 limit remains and is not addressed by the VAT law changes.

Hit by this will be medium sized dealer which are around the CHF 100k limit. For those it could be too costly or cumbersome. For small ones nothing changes. For the big ones it helps to offer fixed prices. Imagine: Alexa, how much cost these nick-nacks? CHF 40 a piece. Alexa, please order 2 nick-nacks. O.k. this will cost CHF 86.16 inclusive free shipping. Alexa, are you bad at math and how is CHF 6.13 free shipping?


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