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-   -   Why does Amazon shun Switzerland? (https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/278060-why-does-amazon-shun-switzerland.html)

dawiz 11.12.2017 12:37

Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Amazon Echo availability and localization has now expanded around the globe. It‘s available in places such as Albania, Gabon, Granada, Guernsey, Guatemala, Kenya, all of the EU, Serbia, Tanzania Togo etc. etc.

Only one missing seems to be Switzerland - what gives? Sorry more venting here than looking for an answer, but still, annoys the crap out of me.

Treverus 11.12.2017 12:46

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
High costs to enter a tiny market. Better ROI to spend the same effort on other countries... essentially the same reasons why Carrefour sold their supermarkets to COOP and spent the earnings on emerging markets.

dawiz 11.12.2017 12:55

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 2884627)
High costs to enter a tiny market. Better ROI to spend the same effort on other countries... essentially the same reasons why Carrefour sold their supermarkets to COOP and spent the earnings on emerging markets.

They didn‘t really „enter“ markets. They simply sell the Echos through their US website and allow setting the location to wherever the buyer lives. Amazon doesn‘t have operations in most of those places. Guernsey? Albania? Kenya? Those are all tiny markets and even though initial investment for Switzerland would be higher, profits would be too as the Swiss buy tons of goods from Amazon already through their German, French and Italian operations. Why not hook them up with these operations?

I understand that they‘re hesitating to expand on services here but being able to ask for local weather won‘t cost them a dime.

kkmm 11.12.2017 13:44

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
In case you missed it.

dawiz 11.12.2017 13:48

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kkmm (Post 2884655)


I had seen that but similar reports have been popping up for a few years now and nothing has ever materialized.

Ok, it would explain why they didn‘t launch the Echo now - if we get full-blown country support soon they‘re likely waiting for that. But I‘m not overly optimistic there.

Tom1234 11.12.2017 14:06

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2884660)
I had seen that but similar reports have been popping up for a few years now and nothing has ever materialized.

Ok, it would explain why they didn‘t launch the Echo now - if we get full-blown country support soon they‘re likely waiting for that. But I‘m not overly optimistic there.

Switzerland is a bloody joke as far as shipping etc is concerned. Amazon primarily wants to make money. The give local support to the Echo so people will use that locality to order goods from Amazon Prime.

If Prime cannot work due to the expensive Swiss postal system then Amazon won't make the effort to provide local services.

I was in correspondence with a furniture supplier in Germany last night and they ship free in Germany and anywhere else in Europe for 100 Euros.
But Switzerland is 250 Euros and, according to their boss (who replied to my email personally on a Sunday night!), they lose all their profit on any Swiss orders.

(The piece of furniture is the same price as similar pieces on sale in Switzerland but not so... well the style is different).

I can ship a parcel from the U.K abroad for 40 Euros. I can ship a parcel with the same courier company from Switzerland and it's 250 CHF for the same parcel.


Still, according to other threads , Amazon Prime is coming.

dawiz 11.12.2017 14:16

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2884667)
Switzerland is a bloody joke as far as shipping etc is concerned. Amazon primarily wants to make money. The give local support to the Echo so people will use that locality to order goods from Amazon Prime.

If Prime cannot work due to the expensive Swiss postal system then Amazon won't make the effort to provide local services.

I was in correspondence with a furniture supplier in Germany last night and they ship free in Germany and anywhere else in Europe for 100 Euros.
But Switzerland is 250 Euros and, according to their boss (who replied to my email personally on a Sunday night!), they lose all their profit on any Swiss orders.

(The piece of furniture is the same price as similar pieces on sale in Switzerland but not so... well the style is different).

I can ship a parcel from the U.K abroad for 40 Euros. I can ship a parcel with the same courier company from Switzerland and it's 250 CHF for the same parcel.


Still, according to other threads , Amazon Prime is coming.

Agreed, importing goods is a nightmare and I‘m guessing exporting to Switzerland isn‘t any better. But that can‘t be the reason why they‘re not releasing the Echo here at this time - as exporting to most countries on the list of newly supported locations will be similarly difficult

Castro 11.12.2017 14:55

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
I see it as a blessing in disguise... 'always connected, always listening'

No ta :rolleyes:

dawiz 11.12.2017 14:59

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2884698)
I see it as a blessing in disguise... 'always connected, always listening'

No ta :rolleyes:

I guess everyone will have to figure out whether the positives outweigh the negatives for him / her. It‘s not like people don‘t have Echos now - they just can‘t use them properly

TobiasM 11.12.2017 15:02

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2884698)
I see it as a blessing in disguise... 'always connected, always listening'

No ta :rolleyes:

Exactly, its quite sinister, surprised people buy into this, allowing yourself to be bugged.

Guest 11.12.2017 15:09

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884703)
Exactly, its quite sinister, surprised people buy into this, allowing yourself to be bugged.

My watch already listens to everything I say. If anybody were remotely interested in what some nobody in the Alps had to say, they'd be thoroughly enthralled by conversations about aeroplane cows, complaints about German homework and musings on possible indigenous American influences on modern European genes.

Let them listen! They'll be bored solid while I'll get to read my emails in class, check the weather at a glance and turn Led Zeppelin up loud without fumbling for my phone.

Seems like a fair trade for me. :D

dawiz 11.12.2017 15:25

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884703)
Exactly, its quite sinister, surprised people buy into this, allowing yourself to be bugged.

I used to be a privacy advocate, but since this happened, I don‘t care anymore:

https://www.humanrights.ch/de/mensch...endienstgesetz

Tom1234 11.12.2017 15:29

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2884668)
Agreed, importing goods is a nightmare and I‘m guessing exporting to Switzerland isn‘t any better. But that can‘t be the reason why they‘re not releasing the Echo here at this time - as exporting to most countries on the list of newly supported locations will be similarly difficult

Exporting from Switzerland is worse.

I've thrown many business plans in the bin after being thwarted by export costs.

TobiasM 11.12.2017 15:29

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

My watch already listens to everything I say. If anybody were remotely interested in what some nobody in the Alps had to say, they'd be thoroughly enthralled by conversations about aeroplane cows, complaints about German homework and musings on putative indigenous American influences on modern European genes.

Let them listen! They'll be bored solid while I'll get to read my emails in class, check the weather at a glance and turn Led Zeppelin up loud without fumbling for my phone.

Seems like a fair trade for me. :D
At the moment DB it might be just peachy. You are basically happy to accept that intrusion on your privacy, because you think you have nothing to hide and your watch is practical. But that is the way this surveillance infiltrates everyone. All our communications, from posting on this website to talking over Skype is giving unlimited access and reams of personal Data to whomever wants it. At some point in the future it could be used to expose behaviour not acceptable to whomever is in power. Algorithms are already being used from facial recognition to gather information for AI and robotics, for example. Other data is being gathered and has in fact been used to manipulate people through Social Media into making very odd decisions in voting (just look up how Cambridge Analytica has behaved). As a teacher I would have thought you would have been more aware of the implications of this sort of surveillance, its certainly not harmless. Also you have to be careful what you discuss in front of Alexa as a friend of mine received an Email "Amazon recommendation for you" for a Hot Tub, when she had only been discussing Hot Tubs with a friend on her phone. :msncrazy:

Castro 11.12.2017 15:30

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

My watch already listens to everything I say. If anybody were remotely interested in what some nobody in the Alps had to say, they'd be thoroughly enthralled by conversations about aeroplane cows, complaints about German homework and musings on possible indigenous American influences on modern European genes.

Let them listen! They'll be bored solid while I'll get to read my emails in class, check the weather at a glance and turn Led Zeppelin up loud without fumbling for my phone.

Seems like a fair trade for me. :D
They say the average American commits 3 felonies per day.. be it smacking an unruly toddler, fudging your taxes or paying a tradesman cash-in-hand. I have enough to worry about without a late night knock on the door from the authorities, all for the sake of a little more convenience :msncrazy:

Anyway, each to their own

TobiasM 11.12.2017 15:35

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2884728)
I used to be a privacy advocate, but since this happened, I don‘t care anymore:

https://www.humanrights.ch/de/mensch...endienstgesetz

Well that is fine for you. But I care. Governments are using the fight against terror as an excuse to infringe on our civil liberties. And the terrorists are laughing and winning at the same time.

dawiz 11.12.2017 16:04

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884737)
Well that is fine for you. But I care. Governments are using the fight against terror as an excuse to infringe on our civil liberties. And the terrorists are laughing and winning at the same time.

Oh no, I completely agree with you. I couldn‘t believe my eyes when the results of that vote were published. And yeah, I also consider that a victory for the terrorists. But considering the fact that the NDB listens in on anything they want now and mass data is being gathered, it simply won‘t matter if I put an Echo in my house or not. They also listen in on our laptops, smartphones, watches, security cameras etc. etc.

I probably should have worded that differently: it‘s not that I don‘t care but that I have moved towards resignation.

Corbets 11.12.2017 17:15

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884737)
Well that is fine for you. But I care. Governments are using the fight against terror as an excuse to infringe on our civil liberties. And the terrorists are laughing and winning at the same time.

... and what do government excesses have to do with anything in a thread about Amazon‘s Echo (a product made by a private company)?

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pu...lfoil_2322.jpg

TobiasM 11.12.2017 17:51

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbets (Post 2884784)
... and what do government excesses have to do with anything in a thread about Amazon‘s Echo (a product made by a private company)?

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pu...lfoil_2322.jpg

Lol exactly.

Can I put it this way then? Amazon Echo, a device to help you shop more :D

Guest 11.12.2017 18:02

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2884698)
I see it as a blessing in disguise... 'always connected, always listening'

No ta :rolleyes:

I hope you don't use a smart phone :p

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundre...ons-cant-hear/

Castro 11.12.2017 18:12

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreeeee (Post 2884816)
I hope you don't use a smart phone :p

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundre...ons-cant-hear/

I leave it charging in the hallway (under a pillow)

marton 11.12.2017 19:06

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2884822)
I leave it charging in the hallway (under a pillow)

Mine is in the west wing :)

roegner 11.12.2017 19:24

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreeeee (Post 2884816)
I hope you don't use a smart phone :p

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundre...ons-cant-hear/

And I just do not allow any app anything it wants, simple ;)

Tom1234 11.12.2017 20:50

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
My six-year-old was 'talking' with our Amazon Echo tonight:

Echo, sing a song.
Echo, sing a Christmas song?
Echo, are you fat?
Echo, are you stupid?
Echo, are you ticklish?
Echo, you are bad.
Echo, Do you love you?
Echo, where is Guatemala?

I don't think I need to be too concerned with governments listening in.

robBob 11.12.2017 21:07

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreeeee (Post 2884816)
I hope you don't use a smart phone :p

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundre...ons-cant-hear/

Does a Nokia windows phone count? :confused:

J_T 12.12.2017 01:18

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
They are all a disease, a psychological disability, The Borg taking over your lives and your wallet. All resistance is helpful in regaining your life.

TobiasM 12.12.2017 10:20

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 2884890)
My six-year-old was 'talking' with our Amazon Echo tonight:

Echo, sing a song.
Echo, sing a Christmas song?
Echo, are you fat?
Echo, are you stupid?
Echo, are you ticklish?
Echo, you are bad.
Echo, Do you love you?
Echo, where is Guatemala?

I don't think I need to be too concerned with governments listening in.


Of course it's not entirely bad. But technically you are putting a listening device into your home, one that records your daily activities, browsing data, Shopping history, music tastes, the radio and news programmes you listen to. Of course we are already part of this collected data, by the very fact we connect to an online world. My point is that the Echo and similar devices are gathering data even when we don't really want them to be doing so and yes they are an open link into our private lives. It is Big Brother in a way, at the moment it might be just a commercial enterprise from Amazon, but this technology has far greater implications for our privacy then some people seem to realize.

Guest 12.12.2017 14:10

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
If I wanted privacy, I wouldn't have moved to a small Swiss village.

:rofl:

gipfelisturmer 12.12.2017 14:33

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884966)
Of course it's not entirely bad. But technically you are putting a listening device into your home, one that records your daily activities, browsing data, Shopping history, music tastes, the radio and news programmes you listen to. Of course we are already part of this collected data, by the very fact we connect to an online world. My point is that the Echo and similar devices are gathering data even when we don't really want them to be doing so and yes they are an open link into our private lives. It is Big Brother in a way, at the moment it might be just a commercial enterprise from Amazon, but this technology has far greater implications for our privacy then some people seem to realize.

Not trying to flame any battles, just trying to understand:
What are you exactly concerned about, with others (companies) having access to your private data?
How do you think they would exploit it?
Which greater implications are some people missing to realize?

E.g. what's Amazon's use of them maybe recording me having an argument (or bedroom activity) with someone?

curley 12.12.2017 15:12

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2884728)
I used to be a privacy advocate, but since this happened, I don‘t care anymore:

https://www.humanrights.ch/de/mensch...endienstgesetz

They keep fighting, it seems. (German)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawiz (Post 2884753)
....... I probably should have worded that differently: it‘s not that I don‘t care but that I have moved towards resignation.

Which is exactly what they want you to do.

Well, it is very surprising that in a country like Switzerland such a law got through - as normally we are very strict about privacy.
Still, I guess it depends how much one actually uses all the available stuff. My GPS is usually turned off - in fact my handy often stays at home when I pop out of the house :eek: - I use hardly any apps and, unlike many friends of mine, my google results still seem quite general. As I google indiscriminately they probably haven't sussed me out yet and can't really profile me. LOL. Once they can I shall be interested as I'm still on my self-discovery-path.
I might have to check my flat and my car for bugs on regular basis now? My friends don't have all these Echo and dog knows what devices either (yet), my shutters are automatic yet with an old fashioned remote of their own (I have to press the button, how exhausting) and everybody tells me I'm too bloody straight forward anyway so I guess I already have no secrets. :D

Still, I'm glad some people are still fighting (although I kind of doubt they will succeed) and in the end each of us has to decide how far we want to go - or how old fashioned we want to stay.
And the cheaper the offers - the more "they" will get out of us re private information. After all, the rule of "give and take" stays valid. So all these people who think all this free stuff is normal today and cheap and cheaper is just the way things go, well .....


Quote:

If I wanted privacy, I wouldn't have moved to a small Swiss village.

:rofl:
LOL, yeah. Swiss country-society is still far ahead. Google could learn from it. Still, unless they start talking about you on the phone or tell your stories to friends via email "what's uttered in Glarus stays in Glarus", which is the difference.

Back to Echo: The new "hello" when visiting someone I guess will be "do you have Echo?"

TobiasM 12.12.2017 15:22

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

If I wanted privacy, I wouldn't have moved to a small Swiss village.

:rofl:
Did you know that this Forum has been installed on your computer by people from small Swiss villages with the intention of keeping tabs on Auslander opinion and activity? :D

Uncle Max 12.12.2017 16:17

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kkmm (Post 2884655)

The Post will abolish the CHF13.- customs inspection charge from 01.01.2018.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiasM (Post 2884732)
At the moment DB it might be just peachy. You are basically happy to accept that intrusion on your privacy, because you think you have nothing to hide and your watch is practical. But that is the way this surveillance infiltrates everyone. ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbucar (Post 2885050)
Not trying to flame any battles, just trying to understand:
What are you exactly concerned about, with others (companies) having access to your private data?
How do you think they would exploit it?
Which greater implications are some people missing to realize?

E.g. what's Amazon's use of them maybe recording me having an argument (or bedroom activity) with someone?

Watch this short video of a BBC journalist in China who was 'captured' within seven minutes of being labelled a suspect.

It's not just you anymore, it's everyone in your family, all of your contacts, your neighbours, your colleagues, where you go and what you spend your money on. It's terrifying. I'm sure Amazon won't 'care' but your data is valuable to someone and you're no longer in control of who gets to purchase it. "We will only extract the data when the people need our help" said the friendly Middle Kingdom police officer... "Citizens don't need to worry".

http://www.atuttascuola.it/contribut.../2017/1984.jpg

ZuriRollt 12.12.2017 16:40

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

My watch already listens to everything I say. If anybody were remotely interested in what some nobody in the Alps had to say, they'd be thoroughly enthralled by conversations about aeroplane cows, complaints about German homework and musings on possible indigenous American influences on modern European genes.

Let them listen! They'll be bored solid while I'll get to read my emails in class, check the weather at a glance and turn Led Zeppelin up loud without fumbling for my phone.

Seems like a fair trade for me. :D
I'm happy for the appearance of the Apple Watch series 3 (but only with the Hermes version, so will have to wait financially) because I can relay my next stroke this year to the relevant emergency services at the push of a button, as well as my nearest and dearest, even while under the shower (waterproof). Not sure I'd want that but still.

Priorities are sometimes hard...

But what truly aggravates, is the limited selection of e-books. Somehow Amazon.de sees the best books as having one with a man with a six-pack on the front-cover + Harry Potter

curley 12.12.2017 17:33

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 2885089)
....
But what truly aggravates, is the limited selection of e-books. Somehow Amazon.de sees the best books as having one with a man with a six-pack on the front-cover + Harry Potter

Same here.
They used to have a button "I want to read this as e-book" or similar and I clicked it every time.
But then that button was suddenly not there anymore :eek::D

Guest 12.12.2017 17:44

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Max (Post 2885083)
It's terrifying.

So terrifying that you've stopped using the internet completely and live totally off-grid?

Or not, apparently.

I still don't see a problem. Google is desperately trying and failing to find things that I'm interested in. It's mildly irritating to be served stories from the Norwich Evening News, but I've never bought anything I've been advertised yet. Amazon tries to sell me books and CDs, but I've not bought any luxury items since I was given my notice, so they've got no hope. That leaves Youtube, which at least gets my taste in videos right, but still has no chance with the adverts. As if someone like me is remotely interested in flying with Etihad airlines! :rofl:

And governments? If the Swiss government was really concerned about my activity, they'd just ask the neighbours or my former colleagues. You know, like the Stasi used to. No need for fancy technology when everyone I've ever met has got ears and a gob.

So sure, if you all want to go off-grid to escape the clutches of Big Brother, go ahead. Except he'll still find you anyway.

Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying all the benefits of hands-free controls with absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever.

http://d3lygmabdeti0m.cloudfront.net...r-The-Trim.jpg

ZuriRollt 12.12.2017 18:02

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 2885102)
Same here.
They used to have a button "I want to read this as e-book" or similar and I clicked it every time.
But then that button was suddenly not there anymore :eek::D

Er, you do need a Kindle or Tolino (if you're that German way inclined).
Which recommendations you receive may be base on how you're other way inclined

Uncle Max 12.12.2017 18:03

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

So terrifying that you've stopped using the internet completely and live totally off-grid?

Or not, apparently.
I've already played my hand by signing the UK official secrets act, many moons ago but valid in perpetuity. Apathy reigns.

Were I to be a human rights lawyer / journalist / trades unionist in <insert country of choice> it may be another response to "If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear"...

ZuriRollt 12.12.2017 18:06

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Max (Post 2885113)
I've already played my hand by signing the UK official secrets act, many moons ago but valid in perpetuity. Apathy reigns.

Were I to be a human rights lawyer / journalist / trades unionist in <insert country of choice> it may be another response to "If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear"...

Is this option also available to non-valley inhabitants

curley 12.12.2017 18:17

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuriRollt (Post 2885111)
Er, you do need a Kindle or Tolino (if you're that German way inclined).
Which recommendations you receive may be base on how you're other way inclined

No you don't. I read amazon e-books on my Sony. There's ways ....

marton 12.12.2017 18:33

Re: Why does Amazon shun Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Max (Post 2885113)
I've already played my hand by signing the UK official secrets act, many moons ago but valid in perpetuity. Apathy reigns.

Were I to be a human rights lawyer / journalist / trades unionist in <insert country of choice> it may be another response to "If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear"...

Ah! I had forgotten "valid in perpetuity" :eek:


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