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View Poll Results: Why do you use Google?
It was set up that way when I first got my device(s) 2 4.65%
I didn’t realise I had a choice, it was just there. 6 13.95%
I wanted to change but I couldn’t figure out how to change it 2 4.65%
I don’t use Google 6 13.95%
Other 27 62.79%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 21.10.2020, 15:16
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Re: Google antitrust

The question is not specific enough.

If you ask about Google search, it's because it works. I guess that's why ~60% of people has answered other. Sometimes when looking for illegal access to copyrighted material I use duckduckgo to check if Google is hiding results

Google as developer of Android?. I don't have time to change the operating system of my phone.
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  #22  
Old 21.10.2020, 15:35
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Re: Google antitrust

sometimes (but not often) Google but mostly Startpage.com.
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  #23  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:20
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Re: Google antitrust

Something to consider.
Quote:
If it is, yesterday could represent the start of that era. The Justice Department filed a lawsuit against Google, accusing it of holding an illegal monopoly over internet search and search advertising. State officials are investigating the company as well, and both federal and state officials are also scrutinizing Facebook, Amazon and some other large companies.

The common thread in these investigations is a concern that big companies have become so powerful that they’re bad for the country. They can distort government policy through lobbyists, lawyers and campaign donations. The companies can hold down wages, because workers don’t always have good employment alternatives. And the companies often squash, or buy, any competitors that threaten their position.

Google is different from past behemoths in that it does not charge money for many of its products (like web search). But there is still reason to worry about its dominance. Its control over web search means it can charge high prices for ads, a particular problem for small businesses. It can also hurt consumers by cluttering its search results with ads, knowing users can’t easily use a rival search engine.

The Washington Post’s Geoffrey Fowler ran a clever experiment this week, comparing the quality of Google searches in 2020 and 2000. His conclusion: “Google increasingly fails us.” As Tim Wu, an antitrust expert, told me yesterday, “A secure monopoly doesn’t have to improve its product.”
from NYT
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  #24  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:36
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Re: Google antitrust

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I prefer DDG as a search engine, but google are still way ahead of the crowd for maps/navigation and translation, as far as I know, so I still use them for that.
For translation, at least, there is a significantly better option than Google that is also free: www.deepl.com. It doesn't offer anywhere near as many language pairs but it has all those that most of us in Switzerland are interested in, and the quality of the translation is head and shoulders above that of Google Translate.
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Old 21.10.2020, 19:37
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Re: Google antitrust

I use it because I've tried others but they don't seem to be quite so comprehensive. I used altavista back in the 90s.

Google will tailor your results according to your preferences. If you're into conspiracy theories for example, you'll find a few more hits when googling 5G than it you're sane.
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  #26  
Old 21.10.2020, 19:52
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Re: Google antitrust

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If you're into conspiracy theories for example, you'll find a few more hits when googling 5G than it you're sane.
Could you rephrase that please.

One of the points is that because Google is so dominant it is impossible for anyone to compete with them.
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  #27  
Old 21.10.2020, 20:04
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Re: Google antitrust

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For translation, at least, there is a significantly better option than Google that is also free: www.deepl.com. It doesn't offer anywhere near as many language pairs but it has all those that most of us in Switzerland are interested in, and the quality of the translation is head and shoulders above that of Google Translate.
I use both and tend to find that sometimes one is better than the other. Often Google will be slightly more sensible in its word choice/phrasing than deepl. Other times it's the reverse. And lately if deepl finds an English word in something you want translated into English it simply won't do it. Had one the other day; a Russian paragraph that had an English word in it so deepl said English detected and promptly changed the translation to be done to French.
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  #28  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:17
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Re: Google antitrust

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I use both and tend to find that sometimes one is better than the other. Often Google will be slightly more sensible in its word choice/phrasing than deepl. Other times it's the reverse. And lately if deepl finds an English word in something you want translated into English it simply won't do it. Had one the other day; a Russian paragraph that had an English word in it so deepl said English detected and promptly changed the translation to be done to French.
In that case, just specify the original language, rather than leaving it to auto-detect.

Here's a comparison of Google Translate vs DeepL, using a randomly selected extract from some fine German literature as the seed text:

1. Kapitel

Im Elternhaus

Als glückliche Bestimmung gilt es mir heute, daß das Schicksal mir zum Geburtsort gerade Braunau am Inn zuwies. Liegt doch dieses Städtchen an der Grenze jener zwei deutschen Staaten, deren Wiedervereinigung mindestens uns Jüngeren als eine mit allen Mitteln durchzuführende Lebensaufgabe erscheint!

Deutschösterreich muß wieder zurück zum großen deutschen Mutterlande, und zwar nicht aus Gründen irgendwelcher wirtschaftlichen Erwägungen heraus. Nein, nein: Auch wenn diese Vereinigung, wirtschaftlich gedacht, gleichgültig, ja selbst wenn sie schädlich wäre, sie müßte dennoch stattfinden. Gleiches Blut gehört in eingemeinsames Reich. Das deutsche Volk besitzt solange kein moralisches Recht zu kolonialpolitischer Tätigkeit, solange es nicht einmal seine eigenen Söhne in einem gemeinsamen Staat zu fassen vermag. Erst wenn des Reiches Grenze auch den letzten Deutschen umschließt, ohne mehr die Sicherheit seiner Ernährung bieten zu können, ersteht aus der Not des eigenen Volkes das moralische Recht zur Erwerbung fremden Grund und Bodens.


Google Translate:

1st chapter

In the parental home

Today it is a happy destiny for me that fate assigned Braunau am Inn to my birthplace. After all, this little town lies on the border of those two German states whose reunification, at least to us young people, appears to be a life's work to be carried out with all means!

German Austria must return to the great German mother country, and not for reasons of any economic considerations. No, no: even if this union were, from an economic point of view, indifferent, yes even if it were harmful, it would still have to take place. Same blood belongs in a common realm. The German people have no moral right to be active in colonial politics as long as they cannot even bring their own sons into a common state. Only when the border of the empire also encloses the last German, without being able to offer the security of their food any longer, does the moral right to acquire foreign land arise from the plight of one's own people.


DeepL:

Chapter 1

In the parental home

Today, I consider it a lucky destiny that fate has chosen Braunau am Inn as my birthplace. After all, this little town lies on the border of the two German states, whose reunification seems to us younger ones at least, to be a life's work to be carried out by all means!

German Austria must return to the great German motherland, and not for economic reasons. No, no: even if this reunification, economically speaking, were to be indifferent, even if it were harmful, it must nevertheless take place. Equal blood belongs in a common empire. The German people have no moral right to engage in colonial political activity until they are able to bring their own sons into a common state. Only when the Reich's border embraces the last German, without being able to offer the security of his food, does the moral right to acquire foreign land arise from the plight of its own people.


Note the subtle differences. DeepL has a much more natural feel to it, and I find this consistently.
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  #29  
Old 21.10.2020, 21:36
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Re: Google antitrust

I find it's swings and roundabouts. Sometimes google translate is more natural, other times deepl. I usually try deepl first since it's one less click to make, but if I think google might improve it then I try that as well. More often than not when I do that google is slightly better.
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  #30  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:00
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Re: Google antitrust

DeepL does familiar/formal (tu/vous) a lot better than Google.
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Old 21.10.2020, 22:06
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Re: Google antitrust

I personally use the Microsoft translator app. It’s free, was some sort of showcase for their AI capabilities and has one key advantage over google: it works in China, the place I need a translator the most...
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  #32  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:11
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Re: Google antitrust

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I personally use the Microsoft translator app. It’s free, was some sort of showcase for their AI capabilities and has one key advantage over google: it works in China, the place I need a translator the most...
Google does Chinese (simplified and traditional). No idea how good it is, of course...
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  #33  
Old 21.10.2020, 22:48
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Re: Google antitrust

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Google does Chinese (simplified and traditional). No idea how good it is, of course...
All google services are blocked in China... only then do you find out how many developers use google stuff under the hood of their apps...
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  #34  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:36
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Re: Google antitrust

I just checked this morning. I remember 3 years ago google search stopped showing results for sci-hub and library genesis. Today, it shows them, so no complains about google search
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  #35  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:50
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Re: Google antitrust

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using a randomly selected extract from some fine German literature as the seed text
You randomly selected "Mein Kampf" as fine German literature?

Tom
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  #36  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:51
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Re: Google antitrust

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Well, you didn’t add the most obvious answer: Google is the market leader because their search works. It has 20years of usage data of me, so the algorithm delivers much better results than any other engine.
True that.

I have Bing set up as default search engine on my work computer. And although I must admit Bing is no longer the joke it was a couple of years ago, it is still pathetic in comparison.
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  #37  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:53
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Re: Google antitrust

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Note the subtle differences. DeepL has a much more natural feel to it, and I find this consistently.
How are translations the other way using DeepL (English to German)?

Any idea?
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  #38  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:55
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Re: Google antitrust

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Google delivers different data based on me being either logged in or out. That by itself is wrong, in my world.
you need to delete your cookies more often.

or leave "porn mode" permanently activated, which despite what the name may imply, basically means your computer deletes that stuff for you.

It also helps you get around many paywalls and things, as those are often cookie-based too.
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  #39  
Old 22.10.2020, 12:03
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Re: Google antitrust

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I wonder what your results would be if Google owned a Thai restaurant in Luxembourg called something other than Bangkok? Or if said restaurant paid google to be placed first ...
Actually I find that Google tends to be quite fair to competitors.

If I Google reverse image search, of course Google Image Search comes top, but Tineye comes second.
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  #40  
Old 22.10.2020, 12:09
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Re: Google antitrust

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I wonder what your results would be if Google owned a Thai restaurant in Luxembourg called something other than Bangkok? Or if said restaurant paid google to be placed first ...
The prospect of Google owning a restaurant ...

You would be presented a menu based on what you ordered at other restaurants.

The food would be free but they would interrupt the meal at inconvenient moments to show you advertisements.

Last edited by amogles; 22.10.2020 at 12:19.
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