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View Poll Results: Why do you use Google?
It was set up that way when I first got my device(s) 2 4.65%
I didn’t realise I had a choice, it was just there. 6 13.95%
I wanted to change but I couldn’t figure out how to change it 2 4.65%
I don’t use Google 6 13.95%
Other 27 62.79%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 22.10.2020, 11:25
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Re: Google antitrust

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The prospect of Google owning a restaurant ...

You would be presented a menu based on what you ordered at other restaurants.

The food would be free but they would interrupt the meal at inconvenient moments to show you advertisements.
And naturally there would be cookies for dessert...
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  #42  
Old 22.10.2020, 12:08
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Re: Google antitrust

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The prospect of Google owning a restaurant ...

You would be presented a menu based on what you ordered at other restaurants.

The food would be free but they would interrupt the meal at inconvenient moments to show you advertisements.
They'd know your allergies.

They'd already know that it is your wife's birthday and suggest you a list of surprises from cake to flowers.

They'd know your approximate income and spending habits, so a menu based on what you can afford...

They'd know my wine taste, so I get personalized recommendations instead of an 80 page wine list.

They'd know my previous reviews and therefore have an idea how I like my service, say for example not the chatty American style,... and act accordingly.


I don't agree that google advertisement is intrusive, quite the opposite. So I'd expect the same in their restaurant. Like a small note with "You liked the wine? Buy it in our shop and get it delivered to your home" on the bottle... its actually more likely that you got the advertisement before to book the table... "Dont forget your wifes birthday in two weeks! Our tables are already 85% booked for the date, so better reserve now!"



While I fully agree to the risks of a monopoly do I not get the hate... they didnt get to their strong market position through political power, lobbying or any of the ways most oil companies, pharma giants or telecom operators did... they simply grew because they offered services people really really liked.
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  #43  
Old 22.10.2020, 12:25
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Re: Google antitrust

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And naturally there would be cookies for dessert...
you would have to opt in if you're in or from the EU for those cookies.....
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  #44  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:02
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Re: Google antitrust

No one uses qwant? Are you happy with it?
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  #45  
Old 22.10.2020, 13:52
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Re: Google antitrust

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I don't agree that google advertisement is intrusive, quite the opposite. So I'd expect the same in their restaurant. Like a small note with "You liked the wine? Buy it in our shop and get it delivered to your home" on the bottle... its actually more likely that you got the advertisement before to book the table... "Dont forget your wifes birthday in two weeks! Our tables are already 85% booked for the date, so better reserve now!"
And during dinner, a waiter will periodically pop over with notes reading "5 people viewed your wife in the last hour", followed by recommendations for self-esteem classes and a private investigator.
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  #46  
Old 22.10.2020, 14:49
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Re: Google antitrust

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They'd know your allergies.

They'd already know that it is your wife's birthday and suggest you a list of surprises from cake to flowers.

They'd know your approximate income and spending habits, so a menu based on what you can afford...

They'd know my wine taste, so I get personalized recommendations instead of an 80 page wine list.

They'd know my previous reviews and therefore have an idea how I like my service, say for example not the chatty American style,... and act accordingly.
Our tables are already 85% booked for the date, so better reserve now!"
.....

Exaclty that is one of the biggest problems, you are trapped inside your comfortable bubble. It slowly creeps into every pore of your daily life. You got served the news you like, the food, the merchandise, everything. It's somehow like travelling the word and eating all the time in McDonalds. It's nothing new, they (and not only google) just brought it too higher level. Living in (golden) cage is just not something that I understand as life.
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  #47  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:00
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Re: Google antitrust

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Here's a comparison of Google Translate vs DeepL, using a randomly selected extract from some fine German literature as the seed text:
You randomly selected Mein Kampf and called it "fine literature" ?
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  #48  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:06
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Re: Google antitrust

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You randomly selected Mein Kampf and called it "fine literature" ?
I've already mentioned this.

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You randomly selected "Mein Kampf" as fine German literature?

Tom
Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 22.10.2020 at 15:57.
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  #49  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:08
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Re: Google antitrust

Sorry, I missed your post.
Most other posters don't seem to care though. Their outrage is reserved for other things.
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  #50  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:12
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Re: Google antitrust

Google is unable to detect sarcasm in the choice of selected texts, this is also a human problem.
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  #51  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:35
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Re: Google antitrust

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Sorry, I missed your post.
Most other posters don't seem to care though. Their outrage is reserved for other things.
Yes. Google tailoring searches to their bs idea of me!
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  #52  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:41
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Re: Google antitrust

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Could you rephrase that please.

One of the points is that because Google is so dominant it is impossible for anyone to compete with them.
There was a time not very long ago that people said that about Microsoft.

In the world of IT you can lose your dominance very quickly if your eyes stray too far from the ball.
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  #53  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:55
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Re: Google antitrust

I use Duckduckgo and avoid Google wherever possible. However I do use it for maps and to a lower degree for Youtube. I've noticed that Google seems to be tending towards a bias against providing all results which seems to have a 'society'/political bias.
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  #54  
Old 22.10.2020, 15:58
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Re: Google antitrust

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Exaclty that is one of the biggest problems, you are trapped inside your comfortable bubble. It slowly creeps into every pore of your daily life. You got served the news you like, the food, the merchandise, everything. It's somehow like travelling the word and eating all the time in McDonalds. It's nothing new, they (and not only google) just brought it too higher level. Living in (golden) cage is just not something that I understand as life.
It is a cage but not golden. Works on the concept of safe space, consumerism, self-importance and comfort. Nothing too out-there, no square pegs, mostly vanilla with the illusion of trendsetting.
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  #55  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:01
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Re: Google antitrust

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And naturally there would be cookies for dessert...
I'm still not quite sure what cookies are. (I mean the edible ones)
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  #56  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:13
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Re: Google antitrust

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I'm still not quite sure what cookies are. (I mean the edible ones)
Well, a cook is a sort of chef right. Fat guy with a spoon in the kitchen.

-ie is a diminutive ending.

Thus a little dog is a doggie.
Or if there is too little stuff to breathe in your appartment, you might say it's a little stuffie.

So, by the same rule, a cookie is a little chef.

In other words, something like this

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  #57  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:00
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Re: Google antitrust

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Sorry, I missed your post.
Most other posters don't seem to care though. Their outrage is reserved for other things.
Methinks they're just better at recognising the sarcastic hyperbole 22y obviously used.
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Old 22.10.2020, 17:42
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Re: Google antitrust

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There was a time not very long ago that people said that about Microsoft.

In the world of IT you can lose your dominance very quickly if your eyes stray too far from the ball.
MSFT didn't enjoy the network effect. Google does to some extent, the volume helps them improve their tailoring. FB, Twitter, et al do entirely, the gain for a new subscriber increases with the number who have already subscribed. If, say, your group uses FB to coordinate it's near-impossible to move elsewhere.

Kindle and Apple Books bind you as well though via a different model. Moving your Apple "books" elsewhere is impossible because your license is limited to Apple (at least that's how I remember it when I checked them years ago). Apple Music uses the same model. The longer you've used them the bigger the hurdles to leave them.
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Old 22.10.2020, 18:19
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Re: Google antitrust

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Methinks they're just better at recognising the sarcastic hyperbole 22y obviously used.
Sarcasm - maybe,
Hyperbole - no.

Using a quote from a racist book of a mass murderer to demonstrate a point - obviously acceptable for you.
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Old 22.10.2020, 19:32
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Re: Google antitrust

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How are translations the other way using DeepL (English to German)?

Any idea?
Sorry for the late response.

I find DeepL very good, again. Much more capable than Google Translate of dealing with the odd sentence structure in German compared to English.

Example (text randomly selected from fine literature, obviously) in English -- actually the approved English translation (1888) of the German original (1848):

A spectre is haunting Europe – the spectre of communism. All the powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Tsar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police-spies.

Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as communistic by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of communism, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?

Two things result from this fact:
  1. Communism is already acknowledged by all European powers to be itself a power.
  2. It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself.
To this end, Communists of various nationalities have assembled in London and sketched the following manifesto, to be published in the English, French, German, Italian, Flemish and Danish languages.


Google Translate:

Ein Gespenst verfolgt Europa - das Gespenst des Kommunismus. Alle Mächte des alten Europa haben ein heiliges Bündnis geschlossen, um dieses Gespenst auszutreiben: Papst und Zar, Metternich und Guizot, französische Radikale und deutsche Polizeispione.

Wo ist die Oppositionspartei, die von ihren Machthabern nicht als kommunistisch eingestuft wurde? Wo ist die Opposition, die den Markenvorwurf des Kommunismus nicht zurückgeworfen hat, sowohl gegen die fortgeschritteneren Oppositionsparteien als auch gegen ihre reaktionären Gegner?

Aus dieser Tatsache ergeben sich zwei Dinge:
  1. Der Kommunismus wird bereits von allen europäischen Mächten als Macht anerkannt.
  2. Es ist höchste Zeit, dass Kommunisten angesichts der ganzen Welt offen ihre Ansichten, ihre Ziele, ihre Tendenzen veröffentlichen und dieser Kindergeschichte vom Gespenst des Kommunismus mit einem Manifest der Partei selbst begegnen.
Zu diesem Zweck haben sich Kommunisten verschiedener Nationalitäten in London versammelt und das folgende Manifest entworfen, das in den Sprachen Englisch, Französisch, Deutsch, Italienisch, Flämisch und Dänisch veröffentlicht werden soll.


DeepL:

Ein Gespenst sucht Europa heim - das Gespenst des Kommunismus. Alle Mächte des alten Europa sind ein heiliges Bündnis eingegangen, um dieses Gespenst auszutreiben: Papst und Zar, Metternich und Guizot, französische Radikale und deutsche Polizeispitzel.

Wo ist die Oppositionspartei, die von ihren Gegnern an der Macht nicht als kommunistisch angeprangert worden ist? Wo ist die Opposition, die den brandmarkenden Vorwurf des Kommunismus nicht zurückgeschleudert hat, sowohl gegenüber den fortgeschritteneren Oppositionsparteien als auch gegenüber ihren reaktionären Gegnern?

Aus dieser Tatsache ergeben sich zwei Dinge:
  1. Der Kommunismus ist bereits von allen europäischen Mächten anerkannt, selbst eine Macht zu sein.
  2. Es ist höchste Zeit, dass die Kommunisten gegenüber der ganzen Welt offen ihre Ansichten, ihre Ziele, ihre Tendenzen veröffentlichen und diesem Kindermärchen vom Gespenst des Kommunismus mit einem Manifest der Partei selbst begegnen.
Zu diesem Zweck haben sich Kommunisten verschiedener Nationalitäten in London versammelt und das folgende Manifest skizziert, das in englischer, französischer, deutscher, italienischer, flämischer und dänischer Sprache veröffentlicht werden soll.


I find the DeepL version much more natural.

For information, here is the original German version of this extract. Bear in mind that it was revised several times by the authors, and the English translation was also altered several times, so it's not surprising that the retranslated version doesn't match the original:

Ein Gespenst geht um in Europa – das Gespenst des Kommunismus. Alle Mächte des alten Europa haben sich zu einer heiligen Hetzjagd gegen dies Gespenst verbündet, der Papst und der Zar, Metternich und Guizot, französische Radikale und deutsche Polizisten.

Wo ist die Oppositionspartei, die nicht von ihren regierenden Gegnern als kommunistisch verschrien worden wäre, wo die Oppositionspartei, die den fortgeschritteneren Oppositionsleuten sowohl wie ihren reaktionären Gegnern den brandmarkenden Vorwurf des Kommunismus nicht zurückgeschleudert hätte?

Zweierlei geht aus dieser Tatsache hervor.
  1. Der Kommunismus wird bereits von allen europäischen Mächten als eine Macht anerkannt.
  2. Es ist hohe Zeit, daß die Kommunisten ihre Anschauungsweise, ihre Zwecke, ihre Tendenzen vor der ganzen Welt offen darlegen und dem Märchen vom Gespenst des Kommunismus ein Manifest der Partei selbst entgegenstellen.
Zu diesem Zweck haben sich Kommunisten der verschiedensten Nationalität in London versammelt und das folgende Manifest entworfen, das in englischer, französischer, deutscher, italienischer, flämischer und dänischer Sprache veröffentlicht wird.
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