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  #21  
Old 14.05.2021, 10:24
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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Very interesting, thanks! I think you would still be able to use your own router though for PON... you would just need a modem provided by the provider to provide the signal to your own router?
They only provide routers (not modems) and most of them do not even support a bridge mode so you cannot plug your own router in between their router and the rest of your network.

So there are only couple options available:
- Own media converter* but for XGS-PON cost is approx. few times the cost of AON media converter (min 300 CHF vs. ~50 CHF)
- PPPoE (can be setup on FritzBox 5530 router for example) but that requires at least two IP addresses issued by the provider. If I am not mistaken, most only give you one dynamic IP address.
- Double NAT as described by dox earlier in this post, may work, but the maintenance would be a nightmare.

* media converter converts optical signal to ethernet. Not a modem.
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  #22  
Old 14.05.2021, 14:47
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

I received the referral by MP.

Concerning topologies we can check it here : MaxFix Check https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/
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  #23  
Old 14.05.2021, 16:53
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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They only provide routers (not modems) and most of them do not even support a bridge mode so you cannot plug your own router in between their router and the rest of your network.
Yes you can. Did this with two different "boxes", from two different providers, and at least three different router-type devices after them. If anything, the second NAT is acting as a supplementary air gap between your network and the rest of the world.

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- Double NAT as described by dox earlier in this post, may work, but the maintenance would be a nightmare.
It does work and it's pretty basic to manage. The only tricky situation is if you choose to connect some devices to the provider "box" and some to your own "router" - then you may need to deal with some specific routing settings.

Otherwise - for the most basic setup:
- connect and set up your provider box as indicated; it will get a public (or CG-NAT) IP address on its Internet-facing interface and it will create a LAN (e.g. 192.168.1.x) on its LAN-facing side. This box will have its LAN-facing address as 192.168.1.1 (just example). You may choose to disable DHCP on this and set the router (see below) manually. This is the first level of NAT'ing.
- connect your router to the provider box; it will get (or you set) a "public" IP address from the LAN of the provider box (say, 192.168.1.2) and you will create its own LAN with a different range (say, 192.168.2.x, with your router's LAN-facing address being 192.168.2.1). Enable DHCP. This is the second level of NAT'ing.
- connect your devices to the router (wired/wireless). They will get their IP addresses via DHCP from your router (so in the 192.168.2.x range).
- optional: disable WiFi on your provider box to reduce interference.
Initial setup time: ~10 minutes. Future maintenance: 0.
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  #24  
Old 14.05.2021, 20:12
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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Is there any fiber provider in CH that does not insist on 24 months (or at least 12 month) contracts (and no, Salt does not count)?

I want to switch to fiber but don't want contractual obligation that is longer than 3-6 months. I cant find any, and it seems this is also a new trend with mobile providers as well (sunrise keeps sending me 'offers' to switch to the new subscription after the merger with UPC that is more expensive - and guess what - 24 months !!! (my current one is with no obligation)... seriously!...))
These guys have pay as you go model: InterXS

What is your concern with 1 year contracts? Bad quality? Moving in Switzerland? Moving outside Switzerland?

I've been with init7 for now and no issues at all. They provided the equipment quite fast (3 days) and everything is working very well. *knock on wood*

If you are leaving Switzerland, any normal provider should cancel the contract without questions if you provide the paper from the Kreisburo. If moving in Switzerland the providers usually stick wiht you, as long as service is available at the new address. In case of init7 they will switch you to their copper/cable offering if there is no fiber in the new place.
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  #25  
Old 14.05.2021, 21:42
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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I am a technical guy too and few days ago I had no idea either

Basically AON stands for Active Optical Network, a dedicated fibre per subscriber (from the node to the premises), some providers refer to it as P2P or point 2 point. Normally, speed limited to 1Gbit/s. Since each subscriber gets his/her own fibre not shared with anyone else, in theory bandwidth is guaranteed to be max. It is more expensive to maintain since it requires an active components like switches etc.

PON on the other hand is a Passive Optical Network or P2MP (Point to Multi Point), a shared optical fiber from the node to the building, usually with 8, 16 or 32 subscribers sharing one optical fiber and signal is split using a passive optical splitter. Cheaper to maintain but since the bandwidth is shared, the full bandwidth is not guaranteed. Comes in two flavours, GPON (1 Gbit PON) and XGS-PON, 10 Gbit PON where X stands for 10 and G for Gigabit and S for symmetrical). Not sure about how much infrastructure in Switzerland is GPON, I think most is actually XGS-PON as until recently most infrastructure was AON and once they started "upgrading" to PON, they went directly with 10Gigs option. PON is much cheaper option as they do not have run a dedicated fiber per household. As for the bandwidth, 10Gbit line in most cases it will be around 2.5 Gbit and with top of the line equipment maybe 5-7 Gbit.

Right now, in most locations where FTTH is available, it is AON. Since upgrading to PON is on the way, most locations will now have both technologies available now, AON and PON. They will not downgrade existing wiring as it does not make sense, hence both options. But providers like Swisscom, Sunrise and Salt will always prefer PON, so they structure their offer in a way that makes AON not a viable option to the customer (like 100Mbits and next up is 10Gbits). They do not even offer a 1Gbit anymore. All marketing bs.

Smaller providers still offer a 1Gbit option which normally utilizes AON technology. For example according to green.ch, at my location I have following infrastructure available:
- BBCS Glasfaser BX 1’000’000/1’000’000 Kbit/s (AON)
- BBCS Glasfaser XGS 10’000’000/10’000’000 Kbit/s (PON)

Sunrise, Swisscom and Salt will now ONLY offer the second option.

IMHO, from the customer perspective, 1 Gbit AON is more attractive since the bandwidth is guaranteed (and not much slower than real bandwidth of XGS-PON), it is also possible to use own hardware. XGS-PON hardware, media converters, network switches, routers, network interface cards for pcs is still prohibitively expensive.

For most customers though this may be of no issue as they will be content with the router they get from the provider, even though they will never come even close to fully utilizing the advertised bandwidth.


Not sure how fruitful your recent internet research was ...

What you're propagating here is closer to disinformation than to anything else.

- Bandwidth is guaranteed neither on AON nor on xPON. It's "best effort" as usual. The difference is only, that at least on XGS-PON it is declared to be shared (at salt) between a maximum of 32 users. On AON it's just undeclared and unknown, IT-speak is "overbooking". They're all shared, sooner or later on the road.
- That sunrise and swisscom only do offer 10Gbit is plain BS. They still have offers for 1Gbit. AFAIK it's true only in exceptional cases, where lately only XGS-PON style network was built and there is no other offer. Still rare cases and surely not any current standard. Takes only a look at the subscriptions options to see it.
- As for routers, as it's explained by dox above, of course you can attach your own one (to the one of the provider). The prerequisite is that you know what you're doing. Do you?
- You also don't need "expensive equipment", all those proprietary routers on 10GBit XGS-PON have 1Gbit slots. So what's the problem?


But for the IMO highly overrated init7, I'm glad to reqoute my assessment:
https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-inter...ml#post3203643

"Init7 is the perfect match for true believers. Like you? Init7 indeed has some success in insinuating to be offering something exceptional, like its repeatedly alleged "superior peering", that no one can properly ascertain. If you look at it by light, for those with open eyes, they might realize that the offer is just +/- the same like those of all other providers. And init7's "best bang for the buck" has long since gone, several others, shall i mention SALT Fiber?, are more competitive.
For the init7 fanboys, all is left is their delusional certainity to have subscribed to an "exceptional" provider. Stick on that, if you feel a need for it."
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  #26  
Old 15.05.2021, 08:08
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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Bandwidth is guaranteed neither on AON nor on xPON. It's "best effort" as usual. The difference is only, that at least on XGS-PON it is declared to be shared (at salt) between a maximum of 32 users. On AON it's just undeclared and unknown, IT-speak is "overbooking". They're all shared, sooner or later on the road.
Yes, of course, you are correct, backbone is always shared. And of course bandwidth is NEVER truly guaranteed, in any case.
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- That sunrise and swisscom only do offer 10Gbit is plain BS. They still have offers for 1Gbit. AFAIK it's true only in exceptional cases, where lately only XGS-PON style network was built and there is no other offer. Still rare cases and surely not any current standard. Takes only a look at the subscriptions options to see it.
Really? Just had a look at their webpages, Swisscom has a 200Mbit offer and next is 10Gbit, can't see anything in between. Sunrise has 500Mbit but no 1Gbit.
https://www.sunrise.ch/en/residentia...e/we-home.html
https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residenti.../internet.html
Where is this "plain BS"?!?
And I know about Wingo, but we are talking about Sunrise and Swisscom here, not their "No Name/No Frills" subsidiaries.
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- As for routers, as it's explained by dox above, of course you can attach your own one (to the one of the provider). The prerequisite is that you know what you're doing. Do you?
Yes, you can attach a router. And yes, it can be setup for basic operations, even with port forwarding. Things get rocky when you try to setup some more complex scenarios. Since you're such an expert, can you please provide a guide how to setup a private VPN (with access to LAN and WAN) and reverse proxies for example? Of course this can be done but it's way beyond the basic stuff and definitely will not take 10 mins to setup. Scenario I'd rather avoid.
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- You also don't need "expensive equipment", all those proprietary routers on 10GBit XGS-PON have 1Gbit slots. So what's the problem?
What I said is that in case I do not want to use a proprietary router (to avoid double NATing for example), with AON I can easily use a media converter at the cost of ~50 CHF, XGS-PON media converter is much more expensive, >300 CHF.

BTW, not sure what 1Gbit ethernet port (slot?!? I presume you mean 1Gbit RJ45 port, right?) on proprietary router has to do with it? 10 Gbit RJ45 is auto negotiating anyway so 10Gbit or 1Gibit, what's the difference which port to use?? How 1Gbit ethernet port solves anything? Do you even know?

Finally, all this would be a moot if providers enabled bridge mode in their routers. I wouldn't care less if I have AON, PON or whatever else, if only they gave me the choice. That's the current setup I have with UPC for example.
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  #27  
Old 15.05.2021, 08:53
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hint: those address checkers at sunrise and swisscom do state an "UP to 10Gbit", which means, as the popup explains, that it is not guaranteed to get those 10Gbit, the alternative will be 1Gbit. Will very likely depend on the location. My guess would be that it should be possible to negotiate out with the provider in most cases what you will get in cases where both is available. I read lately that at sunrise im many cases you still get "just" 1Gbit.

I just don't get the point. If you are determinated to use such "media converters" at all costs, then yes, there might be a limited numbers of providers allowing that. But it's entirely up to you if you are determinated to stumble upon such preliminaries ...
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  #28  
Old 15.05.2021, 22:51
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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These guys have pay as you go model: InterXS

What is your concern with 1 year contracts? Bad quality? Moving in Switzerland? Moving outside Switzerland?
Well, two things really: - a realistic possibility that my company may need me elsewhere (outside CH) in 6-12 months so can't (and don't want) to commit.

- second one - am currently on UPC with no contract (and never had one). When I got it (2012) it was quite a standard to take no contract and now you can clearly see cartels are all moving in the same direction.

And I wouldn't even normally need to change UPC - I moved the apartment year ago and cable connection is on a different wall from fiber - where the TV (has to be) located. And now even if UPC and Sunrise are the same company, no way Jose - totally separate when it comes to internet, and if I wanted fiber can only buy 24 months with Sunrise (or anyone else).

Thanks for the link, sounds promising and too good to be true. If all turns fine will go for it.
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  #29  
Old 17.05.2021, 18:12
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hello,

Also moving from Swisscom to Init7 ASAP.

Is anybody has a referral ?

Thank you,
Cristobal
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  #30  
Old 17.05.2021, 20:04
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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... when it comes to internet, and if I wanted fiber can only buy 24 months with Sunrise (or anyone else).
Wingo removed the minimum contract duration (12 months) lately, it is now 60 days. And Salt also has no minimum contract duration, just a fee of max. 200 CHF (decreasing over time) for premature leaving, what equals to 4 months subscription.
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  #31  
Old 17.05.2021, 22:09
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

All good thank you !
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  #32  
Old 29.06.2021, 19:01
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hi All,

I am new to Switzerland and was hoping to set up init 7 - same question as everyone else has asked on here - would anyone have a referral code?

Thanks.
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  #33  
Old 30.06.2021, 10:06
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

I can't send you a private message
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  #34  
Old 29.08.2021, 15:08
ale ale is offline
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hello everyone,
Same question here? Anyone has a referral code? Save both some money.
Thanks
Ale
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  #35  
Old 13.09.2021, 13:58
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hello everyone,

Same situation here, moving to Switzerland, I will take my chance with init7.

Does anyone have referral code, since I will also order my router from there?

Thanks!
Erkin
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  #36  
Old 13.09.2021, 13:58
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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Hello everyone,

Same situation here, moving to Switzerland, I will take my chance with init7.

Does anyone have referral code, since I will also order my router from there?

Thanks!
Erkin
You can use mine: 17247495325
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  #37  
Old 10.10.2021, 07:50
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

PM me if anyone needs a referral.
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  #38  
Old 13.10.2021, 11:30
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Another referral code here if anyone else needs one: 99538015134

I have had a fiber internet connection with Init7 for 3 years and have no issues/complaints so far. Not sure how the service compares with the like of Sunrise/other options mentioned in this thread though.
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  #39  
Old 19.10.2021, 12:38
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

Hi there,

Am also just about to join Init7 - does anyone else have a referral fee?

Thank you!
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  #40  
Old 19.10.2021, 12:39
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Re: init7/fiber7 referral?

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Hi there,

Am also just about to join Init7 - does anyone else have a referral fee?

Thank you!

That should be referral number!
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