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  #721  
Old 26.04.2011, 21:31
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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True, Switzerland and NL being the two most extreme opposite examples of transmitter efficacy. Or we could all just get satellite receiver dishes and be done with it.
Actually, I am quite in favor of that idea.

BTW, not only does Swisscom transmit SRG programs, but ALL radio programs that are available in Switzerland!

(other than those that pass over the border, but there are few of those, and they don't go far)

Tom
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  #722  
Old 26.04.2011, 21:40
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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How do you know that? Have you seen the invoices?
Errr.. no I haven't, but then again, these two figures are public. You can groan me as much as you want, but these are the facts.

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I want to support the swiss-TV but I don't want to pay 2x for this nonsense so that they need people who control us and another burocracy...
That happens when you outsource the state's tasks (claiming fees) to private companies.

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we pay bonuses for some people who don't really need this money...
It's called capitalism.
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  #723  
Old 26.04.2011, 23:07
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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I want to support the swiss-TV but I don't want to pay 2x for this nonsense so that they need people who control us and another burocracy... we pay bonuses for some people who don't really need this money...
You do not have a bank account ?
  #724  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:30
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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It is not a Billags discretion to "cream off as much as it wants". The sum it gets (about CHF 56 million) is fixed. The rest (about CHF 1.2 billion) goes to the financing of the various TV and radio programs.
That doesn't make much sense. If the sum that Billag got was somehow magically fixed they wouldn't need to come knocking on our doors to ask for more. Where would the incentive be?
  #725  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:38
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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True, Switzerland and NL being the two most extreme opposite examples of transmitter efficacy. Or we could all just get satellite receiver dishes and be done with it.
Would be nice.

But Billag don't charge you for what you can receive. They charge you for what your equipment is capable of receiving, which is not the same thing. So if you are a retired farmer in the remotest corner of Hinterunterkäsibergsbrunneli and the only signal you can get is your neighbour's tractor and your brother in law's cow bells then you still pay Billag if you own a TV set.

It is not in Billag's responsibility to get any signal to you. There is a disconnect between the charge and the service.
  #726  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:42
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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That happens when you outsource the state's tasks (claiming fees) to private companies.

It's called capitalism.
Only that normal capitalist companies face something called competition. If I don't like Migros I can go to Coop. It's not really obvious to me who Billag's competitors are.
  #727  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:47
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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So if you are a retired farmer in the remotest corner of Hinterunterkäsibergsbrunneli and the only signal you can get is your neighbour's tractor and your brother in law's cow bells then you still pay Billag if you own a TV set.
Not 100% true.

Quote: "Nur wenn keinerlei funktionierende Antenneninfrastruktur (Satellit, Antenne, Kabelnetz, Internet) vorhanden ist, besteht für das Fernsehgerät keine Meldepflicht."

rough translation: "Only if no functioning antenna infrastructure (satellite, Antenna, cable, Internet) exists for the TV is there no obligation to pay."

source: http://www.billag.ch/web/de/fragen_u...en/geraet.html
  #728  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:51
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Also, Swisscom has nothing to do with programming, they are only involved with program distribution, not programming itself.

Tom
er, so what?

is the van that delivers newspapers payed for by the government, or by a tax on everybody who can read, or is it in fact payed for the by the newspaper companies. The van driver doesn't have any editorial responsibility so surely it is unfair that his job should depend on the ability of the newspaper editors to make a newspaper that can sell.
  #729  
Old 27.04.2011, 00:59
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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is the van that delivers newspapers payed for by the government, or by a tax on everybody who can read, or is it in fact payed for the by the newspaper companies.
Larger city newspapers are privately owned and distributed but small regional papers in Switzerland (of which most are free of charge) are subsidized by the local governments and delivered by postal workers (also government employees).
  #730  
Old 27.04.2011, 06:27
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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That doesn't make much sense. If the sum that Billag got was somehow magically fixed they wouldn't need to come knocking on our doors to ask for more. Where would the incentive be?
They love their job?
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Old 27.04.2011, 09:17
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Billag is not the government.
I was just translating old chap.
  #732  
Old 27.04.2011, 12:43
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Nothing in that is actually owed to the government. The government has basically signed away its rights to interfere.
If you get to the stage where Billag issue a court order (Betreibung) for not paying, you will see that it is issued on behalf of the Federal Government.

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But there is a silver lining. The contract will expire at some point. The Bye Bye Billag initiative wants to ensure it isn't renewed but that the government replaces this nonsense by an honest tax. And of course Billag is fuming. But their days are numbered.
Is a tax the only alternative to Billag?
  #733  
Old 27.04.2011, 13:47
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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If you get to the stage where Billag issue a court order (Betreibung) for not paying, you will see that it is issued on behalf of the Federal Government.
Are you speaking on experience?

My impression is very much that Billag goes for low hanging fruit only. They knock on people's doors and scare them but don't stick their head out and put up money for something like a court case that they could actually lose, or worse still culminate in a legal precedent that others could use against them. The only situation where they would even contemplate gouing to court is when they are sure of winning because the person is a student or a pensioner or a single mother who won't get a decent lawyer. But probably even that is too much risk for them. Scaring people and telling them B$ is so much more cost effective. I have seen no evidence of any legal procedings initiated by Billag so far.

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Is a tax the only alternative to Billag?
No, but being realistic, it's the least unfair option of those that are politically doable right now.
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  #734  
Old 27.04.2011, 20:50
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Errr.. no I haven't, but then again, these two figures are public. You can groan me as much as you want, but these are the facts.



That happens when you outsource the state's tasks (claiming fees) to private companies.



It's called capitalism.
Thanks for clarifying it... A good brain you have.

I love capitalism. I want to buy buy buy................. but not to pay pay pay. But: What do I "buy" when I pay billag, if I don't have TV or radio, only 20M-DSL. I am capable of killing people, because I have a knife at home, and I don't go to the jail.

We have to support swiss TV and they can make shitty programs if they decide it. But I dont understand paying the burocracy and this people looking around what you have at home...
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  #735  
Old 27.04.2011, 20:52
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Are you speaking on experience?

My impression is very much that Billag goes for low hanging fruit only. They knock on people's doors and scare them but don't stick their head out and put up money for something like a court case that they could actually lose, or worse still culminate in a legal precedent that others could use against them. The only situation where they would even contemplate gouing to court is when they are sure of winning because the person is a student or a pensioner or a single mother who won't get a decent lawyer. But probably even that is too much risk for them. Scaring people and telling them B$ is so much more cost effective. I have seen no evidence of any legal procedings initiated by Billag so far.



No, but being realistic, it's the least unfair option of those that are politically doable right now.
Yes, and it would be much cheaper.
  #736  
Old 04.05.2011, 00:08
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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I was just translating old chap.
Yes, I also thought this But the original content of what you correctly translated is still odd.. (this topic is so frustratingly fascinating!). If a fee is owed to the government, why does the government use a private company to collect it? Why is it not a tax (like church tax)? I never got that part of all this.

Also, why do people keep translating Billag's Q&As, instead of the letter of the law? Who cares about how Billag interprets the law..? They are a private company, so why should I care what their interpretation or opinion of the law is.. (opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one).

In the actual law it says something like this:
"Wer ein zum Empfang von Radio- und Fernsehprogrammen geeignetes Gerät..."

But it doesnt (correct me, as I know im likely wrong!) say what devices are "geeignetes" (suitable?)... and leaves me to decide this.

e.g. I don't see the word "Internet" in the law as something capable of TV reception. A TV is a TV. Internet is internet.

How could Internet/computer be classed as TV and radio reception equipment? Mine can not receive TV signals, nor radio signals. If I installed Windows, likely it could watch youtube though.. but where does all this nonsense stop?

Any Billag person is welcome to come to my house and try to log in through the Unix password, and try to look at TV or radio...

No... on second thoughts, they are not welcome in my house at all. They can continue guessing at the non-existence of "TV equipment", and I'll happily let them spend all of your Billag donations trying to decipher what is in, or not in my house to receive their rubbish shows that I don't want.

Like I said earlier - I'll never pay for something I didn't order, don't use and don't want... unless it is a tax.
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  #737  
Old 04.05.2011, 10:04
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Re: Do I have to get a TV licence from Billag?

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Also, why do people keep translating Billag's Q&As, instead of the letter of the law?
...
In the actual law it says something like this:
"Wer ein zum Empfang von Radio- und Fernsehprogrammen geeignetes Gerät..."

But it doesnt (correct me, as I know im likely wrong!) say what devices are "geeignetes" (suitable?)... and leaves me to decide this.

e.g. I don't see the word "Internet" in the law as something capable of TV reception. A TV is a TV. Internet is internet.
I guess people use Billag's interpretation because it's them that will be chasing for the money if it isn't paid.

It needs somebody willing to take it to court to get it legally clarified*. As someone else remarked though, Billiag are unlikely to want that in case they lose.


* Or for the definition of the law to be brought up to date.
  #738  
Old 11.05.2011, 10:55
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Re: Billag Visiting

Hello everybody and many thanks again for all contributions and good discussions.
Here I explain what happened to me finally after this visit:
The BILLAG sent me 2 letters. One was regarding my registration, another contained a bill for my registration. The bill was due to my 2 year internet usage (~400 CHF) with no fine included. So, I just paid the bill and things are looking fine.
I believe whenever you are honest and tell the truth, the life difficulties are minimized.
Have a good summer time, all.
  #739  
Old 11.05.2011, 11:01
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Re: Billag Visiting

Hello everybody;
Many thanks again for all contributions and good discussions.
Here I explain what happened to me finally after this visit:

The BILLAG sent me 2 letters. One was regarding my registration, another contained a bill for my registration. The bill was due to my 2 year internet usage (~400 CHF) with no fine included. So, I just paid the bill and things are looking fine.
I believe whenever you are honest and tell the truth, the life difficulties are minimized.

Have a good summer time, all.
  #740  
Old 11.05.2011, 11:10
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Re: Billag Visiting

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My information is that you have one Billag account for one family living at the same address, not for one group of friends at the same address.
You pay Billag per Household, not number of rooms or people (Bars, offices etc. of course have other rules, this is for private residencies only).
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